Deer hunters from Ontario, fear not!

tch1717 said:
the deer hunting here in SW Ontario has been sucky to this year !!...i honestly think we missed the rut !!...some tracks and a couple sightings, but nothing to get worked up about, and only a little less than 3 weeks left in the season !
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please tell this to the rest of the boneheads in ontario who are crying about not seeing any deer this year and blaming coyotes :rolleyes: many dont understand that the temperatures this fall were much warmer than previous years. this results in the rut being pushed back a couple weeks or longer and farmers waiting longer to cut corn. deer will practically live in standing corn when they start to notice hunting pressure.

id assume that most who are blaming the coyotes usually hunt during the early controlled hunts and havent spent a lot of time in the bush. they are basing their opinions on previous years which is something you cant do when the weather gets so far out of whack.
 
canadian hunter312 said:
please tell this to the rest of the boneheads in ontario who are crying about not seeing any deer this year and blaming coyotes :rolleyes: many dont understand that the temperatures this fall were much warmer than previous years. this results in the rut being pushed back a couple weeks or longer and farmers waiting longer to cut corn. deer will practically live in standing corn when they start to notice hunting pressure.

id assume that most who are blaming the coyotes usually hunt during the early controlled hunts and havent spent a lot of time in the bush. they are basing their opinions on previous years which is something you cant do when the weather gets so far out of whack.
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Well..................I spend a LOT of time out hunting, and I hunt deer pretty much from 1 Oct to 31 Dec. Archery, rifle, shotgun, muzzle loader. I also get into the woods in the spring and summer. I have been deer hunting for about forty years, albeit not all here - some of that time was spent out west. I lived through the Ontario deer drought of the late 70s and early 80s. So I have a frame of reference that perhaps others do not, whether they are BONEHEADS or just guys that do not have much experience.

We had a very tough winter two years ago, and the deep snow of April 2008 here in Eastern Ontario was deadly for our herd: the coyotes slaughtered them. Last winter was also tough, and of course the herd went into the winter at reduced numbers from the previous year. For whatever reason, this fall there have been almost no fawns sighted in this area. It could be because the does aborted in late winter, or never got bred last fall, or just maybe the coyotes are getting a lot of the fawns. Seeing as how we see a lot of HEALTHY coyotes, and hear them practically every evening when we are out hunting, it seems to me that they are not starving. So maybe wherever YOU hunt the coyotes are not taking deer, but they sure as hell are killing a lot of deer here in Eastern Ontario.

Doug
 
I am behind you on that note 100% Doug! We are inundated with coyotes. Friday evening my buddy took an 8 point buck from one of the stands we have about 15 mins before legal shooting time ended. He left the deer for 30 mins and then went to follow. It had layed down 4 times but was still moving so he came back to the house, we all had dinner and returned after dinner to track and recover it. About 2 hrs had passed. We tracked it and walked in on a pack of coyotes gorging themselves on it, all that was left was one front shoulder!! That was the second one this year, last one was 40 mins and went to pick it up and coyotes were there and had eaten the guts and one back quarter. Seems if you can get to your deer right away and leave a little human scent on or around it(we leave a hat on it) while we fetch the bike then they dont touch it but if you dont get to it and "mark" it so to speak then they are on it fast! We hear them taking deer down a couple nights/week here and find the kills regularily. We are now on a coyote erradication program, at least on this 275 acres if we can get the buggers, We have blasted 2 so far in the past 3 weeks. They are usually a little too far for the crossbow or 348, lol. Should have kept that 22-250 I got from you, oh well good excuse for a new rifle!!
 
I found deer carcasses taken by coyotes, before any snow fell. They weren't fawns either...

With the amount of snow falling around Algonquin, the population there will take a big hit. Hopefully the snow eases up, as another year or two of this will see our populations severely diminished.

This year is the first time in over 20 years that I didn't draw an antlerless tag in my area. Draw rate was reduced from 100% to 56%, and that's only after 2 hard winters...
 
canadian hunter312 said:
please tell this to the rest of the boneheads in ontario who are crying about not seeing any deer this year and blaming coyotes :rolleyes: many dont understand that the temperatures this fall were much warmer than previous years. this results in the rut being pushed back a couple weeks or longer and farmers waiting longer to cut corn. deer will practically live in standing corn when they start to notice hunting pressure.

id assume that most who are blaming the coyotes usually hunt during the early controlled hunts and havent spent a lot of time in the bush. they are basing their opinions on previous years which is something you cant do when the weather gets so far out of whack.
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Two weeks after the first shotgun hunt the bush we hunt EXPLODED with deer sign. There was a certain hedgerow which had scrapes every 12 feet for the length of it. Lost a whole bunch of our smaller evergreens too. I hear its their perfume..... Trails became very obvious.....Lots more sightings. But they still weren't acting "normal"

No coyotes seen, but there was lots of scat. Maybe that has something to do with my f-i-l dumping the buffalo carcases in the bush;)
 
Doug said:
So maybe wherever YOU hunt the coyotes are not taking deer, but they sure as hell are killing a lot of deer here in Eastern Ontario.

Doug
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blargon said:
This year is the first time in over 20 years that I didn't draw an antlerless tag in my area. Draw rate was reduced from 100% to 56%, and that's only after 2 hard winters...
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We hunt in 62 not far from where both of you are located. I put the trail cam's out by the summer to track the size of the herd. One by a food plot and another by a large crab apple tree (it drops 100's of small to medium size apples every fall).

I did notice a change in the herd this year. The buck count was up, the doe count was down and the rut didn't start until December.

Last year 4 bucks total, two eight points, two 4 points and 7 seven does were captured on the cam's.

This year one ten point, one nine point (which I took during muzzle loader), one eight point, two 6 points, one four point, a yearling with bumps and 4 does. All of the does were seen during daylight hours during rifle as was "bumpy".

Our thought this year is to put aside a few bales of hay and clover and drop them in the feed plot if the snow gets really high.

The coyote count is up this year as well, I have one picture from the "apple cam" where I can see four. So we'll have some "cleaning up" to do this winter.

An added bonus this year were the three turkeys I saw at the start of rifle.
 
Doug said:
So maybe wherever YOU hunt the coyotes are not taking deer, but they sure as hell are killing a lot of deer here in Eastern Ontario.

Doug
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sure the yotes around here are taking deer just like everywhere else. the one bush i hunt west of brantford likely has more yotes than deer, but the deer are still doing fine. the problem is many hunters who post on forums only hunt the controlled hunt in november. with the rut being pushed back at least a couple weeks these guys simply didnt see deer during that hunt like they have most years. then they come online and start blaming coyotes for the lack of deer. but, the rut wasnt on and the deer simply werent moving like they usually do which is why many hunters have seen less deer.

i fully understand that in some areas the yotes are out of control and are to blame for low deer numbers, but the problem is nowhere near as widespread as many people on the intraweb are claiming.

during the warm months and periods where the snow isnt very deep, coyotes will typically pursue small game. small critters are simply an easier meal and dont require a pack to bring down. normally yotes wont take on mature deer unless there are 3 or more trying to take one down.


unless there is an extremely high coyote population the only time yotes will have a big impact on deer herds is when the snow is deep and the deer are yarded up....just like we had last winter;)'
 
canadian hunter312 said:
sure the yotes around here are taking deer just like everywhere else. the one bush i hunt west of brantford likely has more yotes than deer, but the deer are still doing fine. the problem is many hunters who post on forums only hunt the controlled hunt in november. with the rut being pushed back at least a couple weeks these guys simply didnt see deer during that hunt like they have most years. then they come online and start blaming coyotes for the lack of deer. but, the rut wasnt on and the deer simply werent moving like they usually do which is why many hunters have seen less deer.

i fully understand that in some areas the yotes are out of control and are to blame for low deer numbers, but the problem is nowhere near as widespread as many people on the intraweb are claiming.

during the warm months and periods where the snow isnt very deep, coyotes will typically pursue small game. small critters are simply an easier meal and dont require a pack to bring down. normally yotes wont take on mature deer unless there are 3 or more trying to take one down.


unless there is an extremely high coyote population the only time yotes will have a big impact on deer herds is when the snow is deep and the deer are yarded up....just like we had last winter;)'
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Arent you the same guy who didnt own a gun or hunt up until about 6 or 7 years ago?

I recall some "I want to go rabbitt hunting threads"
 
gth said:
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Arent you the same guy who didnt own a gun or hunt up until about 6 or 7 years ago?

I recall some "I want to go rabbitt hunting threads"
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7 years since i got my PAL when i was 17, but have been hunting since i was a little kid when i was given my first guns.

that thread you are referring to was me inviting CGN members in the area to go on a rabbit hunt on one of the properties. two members took me up on the offer;)

why do you ask?
 
Doug said:
Well..................I spend a LOT of time out hunting, and I hunt deer pretty much from 1 Oct to 31 Dec. Archery, rifle, shotgun, muzzle loader. I also get into the woods in the spring and summer. I have been deer hunting for about forty years, albeit not all here - some of that time was spent out west. I lived through the Ontario deer drought of the late 70s and early 80s. So I have a frame of reference that perhaps others do not, whether they are BONEHEADS or just guys that do not have much experience.

We had a very tough winter two years ago, and the deep snow of April 2008 here in Eastern Ontario was deadly for our herd: the coyotes slaughtered them. Last winter was also tough, and of course the herd went into the winter at reduced numbers from the previous year. For whatever reason, this fall there have been almost no fawns sighted in this area. It could be because the does aborted in late winter, or never got bred last fall, or just maybe the coyotes are getting a lot of the fawns. Seeing as how we see a lot of HEALTHY coyotes, and hear them practically every evening when we are out hunting, it seems to me that they are not starving. So maybe wherever YOU hunt the coyotes are not taking deer, but they sure as hell are killing a lot of deer here in Eastern Ontario.

Doug
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About the only thing I could add to that, is the two wolves I saw this year. It's been a very long time since I've seen even a single wolf while hunting, I think the 1970's was the last time. Seeing two this year, certainly supports the theory that the predators cleaned up on snow bound deer the last two years. Time for a predator hunt I think.
 
John Y Cannuck said:
About the only thing I could add to that, is the two wolves I saw this year. It's been a very long time since I've seen even a single wolf while hunting, I think the 1970's was the last time. Seeing two this year, certainly supports the theory that the predators cleaned up on snow bound deer the last two years. Time for a predator hunt I think.
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Whoops. You might be a BONEHEAD for thinking that..........after all, we have a member posting on this thread who is 24 years old and has hunted for at LEAST that long, whose opinions are the only ones that are valid here. And you are NOT seeing deer because you ONLY hunted when the rut was not on. Don't you know anything, you BONEHEAD!!!!

Don't worry, you are in good company, with this older hunter who is also apparently a BONEHEAD according to the exceptionally experienced young gun.

:D

Doug

PS) he says he got his PAL when he was 17, so I guess he is SPECIAL. Maybe in an Olympics kind of way. :p So we maybe need to cut him some slack when he calls people BONEHEADS because his view of the world is not congruent with theirs. :rolleyes: Or maybe he would like to consider his viewpoint, taking into account his own sig line.
 
Well, given the lads location, he probably has no idea how much snow we had up here the last couple of winters.
Deer plunge through deep snow, running slow, and tiring fast. Coyotes and wolves run at speed, on top, with little fear of tiring.

And of course Doug, a guy who has hunted for seven full years (maybe) is bound to know more than a guy that has hunted a mere 40 years. :D
 
The late rut theory is hogwash. I hunt in both 85C and 66A. In Eastern Ontario we've seen three years of rapid and steady decline in the deer population, and numbers are down in SW Ontario too, just not as much. The MNR believes this and so do most experienced hunters.

The coyote population is way up and we've had have several years of heavy snow - both have conspired to take a heavy toll on deer. The heavy snow is a four way whammy - it makes it more difficult to feed which weakens the deer, and makes it more difficult for the deer to get around and that makes it easier for predators to kill them. Come spring, the lower number of does that are still alive and pregnant are at higher risk of losing their fawns to - coyotes.

It's a natural cycle, but I hope it's temporary. Four-five years ago I'd fill three tags in Eastern Ontario, now I'm not seeing a deer I can shoot at responsibly. I have to drive to a farm in 85C to get a deer, which fortunately I've been able to do during these lean years, but many other guys don't have the option.
 
Yep have to agree with that, I have been hunting longer than that young gentleman has been alive, with his vast amount of experience who would dare to contradict him.
Fact is in this area the yotes are up and they are taking at least the fawns. I found 2 full sized deer killed last winter. One being a decent sized deer that was still steamin when Doug and I found it on our way out ice fishining in around 10" of snow. The other was killed on the road(read no snow as it is plowed) @ my hunting property (32nd year hunting there this year). I started scouting in June with multiple trail cams out and am still scouting today. Late rut or not predation is a signifigant factor in redced deer herds. We harvested 3 does off my 200 acres of land in 62 all adult doe's and all dry. Either they are not being bred or the fawns are being killed off. Given the fact that when a deer herd is under stress the doe's start having almost exclusively female offspring, it causes me distress to shoot 3 does that are mature breeding age and not lactating. I might be a bonehead but it is my opinion that the yotes have a signifigant part in this.

Andy
 
old deer hunters must be daft LOL

Well I shot a yote trailing a fawn the last week end of gun season. Every night we have a corus of howls all night long right behind my house and strangley enough there are no deer or deer signs. A coyote hunter friend of mine and his group shot 76 yotes last winter in my area. I hope our young hunter can explain this to an old Bonehead like me.
Swamp
 
While I don't have any where as near the experience some of the lads here do I think this has been building for years. We have had many years of high deer numbers and the coyote and wolf population got strong and plentiful. Add a few bad winters (deep snow) in there and populations are going to drop like a rock.

In a few years the coyote populations will start to fall and the deer numbers will start to come back. I personally plan to accelerate this cycle... :D :sniper:
 
Bonehead is a fairly careless word.
I have watched these deer take a pounding, for the last three winters, up here in Algonquin.
Heavy deep snow, weak animals, from poor feed, and lot of predators eating them.
Last winter they were so week and thin it was easy pickings for any predators that wanted them, including spring bears. I would guess in the last two winters we have lost 50% of the does (in our area) and reproduction is poor from their weakened condition. Right now my horses can hardly get around in this snow and in two days when it goes -20 the wolves and coyotes are going to hammer them again. I will find bits and pieces of them all over the place once spring comes. The deer that survive are the ones who don't live in the wilderness. The deer that can find any sort of trail, to run on and a meal.
Just my view from my window.
A few photos of the first big snow. This was only the first night. Too busy to take photos after this but it came again twice more before it was done.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/sandmandrms/snowday006-1.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/sandmandrms/snowday001-1.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg261/sandmandrms/snowday002-1.jpg
 
Hey guys, go easy on the enlightened one! We might learn something that we have not picked up in our collective years hunting. I am probably one of the younger members here (only been big game hunting for 23 years) and I can see the writing on the wall, or should I say snow? It is plain and simple, deer numbers are down, likely due to a combination of high predator populations, and several tough winters.

But hey, I am going to shut up now so I might learn something from the EXPERT!
 
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