Deer hunting with a 308 Winchester rifle

[trevj]

Odds are a varmint load won't get to the vitals, leading to a horribly wounded animal. 150 -165 gr. are more than capable of taking any Canadian game animal at humane/ethical distances.

If you shoot them in the arse with a cannon, like as not they will run away and likely die elsewhere.

True story. A guy I worked with bought ENTIRELY in to the 7mm STW myth, and shot a moose in the ass with it, then watched slack-jawed, as it walked off into the swamp, no doubt to die painfully.

Bullet placement is key!

FWIW, I shot a doe in the ribs with a .223 and a Winchester 50 grain bulk bag bullet. She took exactly one step and cratered in. I recovered 39 of 50 grains of that bullet, against the inside of the off-side front leg. Lungs were mush, heart not salvageable. Meat loss was pretty close to nil. One of several deer that I have been involved with, taken with too small, cartridges, and varmint bullets.
What 'everybody knows', isn't the same as what happens.

If you push a bullet really fast, and don't choose your spot to hit well, you can reasonably expect to dump a LOT of your deer meat onto the floor while trimming. If you keep the speeds reasonable, or even slow, you can pretty much, as they say, eat right up to the hole.

 

[trevj]

I would not hunt deer with a .30 cal. 110gr Vmax. I cannot think of a single reason to do so.

I have. Had them. They were shooting well, and the rifle was sighted in for that load. It was a very delicious Mulie Buck! He landed like he'd been struck by God!

 

[Jim870]

I was looking for a lighter factory 308 round with some better ballistics and found a federal 110gr varmint load with a Hornady VMax bullet and a Hornady 125grain SST custom lite. Haven’t been able to findthe Hornady but I grabbed a box of the federal recently. I realize this is a varmint oriented loading, but for flatter trajectory it’s pretty sweet. Would a shot to the vitals broadside with a 110 Vmax be recommended however?

I wouldn't be eager to use them. I suspect you would have the some beautifully quick kills and the occasional blowup taking only one lung and a long recovery. At least that was my experiences with a friend using the 87 grain version from his 6mm. The inconsistency and fact that all that ever went past the onside lung resembled bird shot finally allowed me to convince him a slightly less accurate load with a big game bullet might at least give an exit wound for blood trails.

 

[LawrenceN]

As is noted, bullet placement is the most critical element of hunting. I personally love the .308 platform and I can load whatever each individual rifle likes to wring the best accuracy out of it. My buddy shoots silver dollar sized groups out of his Savage using Remington Premiere 165 gr. and he nailed a nice 6 pointer last year. I nailed a 5 pt. with my 7.62 X 39 in a lovely broadside heart shot. He walked 10 ft. and nosed into the dirt, done like dinner. I think any good quality hunting bullet, properly placed, will fill the bill and put meat on the table.

 

[caramel]

My Scout Steyr 308 with Nosler 165 gr Accubond factory is as good as it get for deer, bear and moose hunting.

 

[rral22]

If you shoot them in the arse with a cannon, like as not they will run away and likely die elsewhere.

True story. A guy I worked with bought ENTIRELY in to the 7mm STW myth, and shot a moose in the ass with it, then watched slack-jawed, as it walked off into the swamp, no doubt to die painfully.

Bullet placement is key!

FWIW, I shot a doe in the ribs with a .223 and a Winchester 50 grain bulk bag bullet. She took exactly one step and cratered in. I recovered 39 of 50 grains of that bullet, against the inside of the off-side front leg. Lungs were mush, heart not salvageable. Meat loss was pretty close to nil. One of several deer that I have been involved with, taken with too small, cartridges, and varmint bullets.
What 'everybody knows', isn't the same as what happens.

If you push a bullet really fast, and don't choose your spot to hit well, you can reasonably expect to dump a LOT of your deer meat onto the floor while trimming. If you keep the speeds reasonable, or even slow, you can pretty much, as they say, eat right up to the hole.

What happens can often be a fluke. Basing your life choices on a couple of data points that contradict thousands of data points is not smart. The fact that people have gone over Niagara Falls in a barrel doesn't mean we should open a tourist concession for thrill seekers. I believe your stories of small bullets working if used correctly, and that shooting things in the ass is a bad thing even for "powerful" cartridges. Makes me want to just say, "Duh."

I have hunted long enough to know that, if you hunt long enough, things will not always go correctly, no matter how much you think you're better than all those who have gone before you. "Use enough gun" (something almost everybody knows) is way better advice than, "use as little gun as you heard someone got away with." Deliberately choosing to use 110 gr Vmax bullets in a .308 to hunt deer when there are many, many bullets for that cartridge that are much more reliable and just as accurate is pretty silly, and will, eventually, cause issues that could be avoided by simply being smart about it.

 

[TSPIRI]

The difference between your 180 grain bullets and say a 150 is a slight point of impact difference. I usually use the same heavy bullet for both moose and deer. I never felt the need to sight in with lighter bullets between seasons. If the 180s shoot well for you go with that.

 

[scruffee]

I shoot 180gr out of my favourite .308 Win because it groups well and I don't have to switch loads between deer and moose.

If I had a sweet 150gr load I would use that for deer but why change what works.

 

[trevj]

What happens can often be a fluke. Basing your life choices on a couple of data points that contradict thousands of data points is not smart. The fact that people have gone over Niagara Falls in a barrel doesn't mean we should open a tourist concession for thrill seekers. I believe your stories of small bullets working if used correctly, and that shooting things in the ass is a bad thing even for "powerful" cartridges. Makes me want to just say, "Duh."

I have hunted long enough to know that, if you hunt long enough, things will not always go correctly, no matter how much you think you're better than all those who have gone before you. "Use enough gun" (something almost everybody knows) is way better advice than, "use as little gun as you heard someone got away with." Deliberately choosing to use 110 gr Vmax bullets in a .308 to hunt deer when there are many, many bullets for that cartridge that are much more reliable and just as accurate is pretty silly, and will, eventually, cause issues that could be avoided by simply being smart about it.

No, I am using MY personal experiences, and MY personal observations, as counter data to those who repeat the same old lines about a lack of penetration and 'it'll blow up under the skin' as their logic for NOT using those particular rounds or bullets.
What 'everybody knows' gets repeated a lot, by folks without first hand experience to back it up.

Using enough bullet, is not nearly so important an aspect to consider, as is using enough brains. Knowing the capabilities of the rifle used, accuracy wise, and knowing to pick your shots. Especially knowing that there are deer all over the place, and that one walking away unmolested is not the end of the world, so as to avoid taking a shot that does not offer the best odds of a clean hit and kill.

The particular lack-wit of the 7STW story, was a member of a group of guys that thought it was funny to get liquored up and shoot at each others boots drying by their own fire. Not the sharpest of crayons in the box. But he really did believe, that he should have been able to shoot a moose anywhere, and have it die. Because, well, biggest, baddest, fastest, most overhyped, etc. Too bad for the moose.

 

[Brutus]

Some people need more limitations than others. And we often forget that each province and territory has its own specific set of game harvest regulations.
What might be legal in one region, may not be acceptable in another region.
I wish to use the American example of numerous states that allow handgun hunting. Plus archery harvest is hugely popular in North America and many European nations, this has been effectively banned in the UK since about 1980 or thereabouts.

 

[Brutus]

I am going to add something I should have included within my last post, but here it is:
I rarely had the opportunity to big game hunt with trevj.
But we certainly shared lots of trigger time in gopher fields and boreal forest rabbit hunting.

And of about half a dozen of us that had the extreme luck (thank you Trevj!) to access a Edit: full section of prime prairie horse pasture, Trevor was the most trusted rifle shooter by the owners, on a property that corralled about thirty Arabian horses.

 

[beretta boy]

I used a 308 for 25 years for whitetail in Central Ontario. I found Remington's factory loads of 180 gr. Core-lokt SP to be more than adequate.
Around 1/2 of those downed were "bang flops" and only 2 of the 30-odd required a second shot.

2 moose also met their demise with the same rifle/load.

 

[M12shooter]

I've shot whitetail with everything from 22 to 50 cal. Only camberings/cal that are almost 100 percent bang flop within decent range is my 22-250 and naturally a 50 cal muzzle loader slug. Most 30 cal stuff sails on through and typical a whitetail goes 30 or 40 yards before piling up. Settled on a 25-06 decades ago and never looked back. Short of it is most calibers and chamberings will kill deer humanely with shot placement paramount. 22 stuff should best be left to experienced hunters in my opinion and is illegal in some provinces I believe...

 

[trevj]

I've shot whitetail with everything from 22 to 50 cal. Only camberings/cal that are almost 100 percent bang flop within decent range is my 22-250 and naturally a 50 cal muzzle loader slug. Most 30 cal stuff sails on through and typical a whitetail goes 30 or 40 yards before piling up. Settled on a 25-06 decades ago and never looked back. Short of it is most calibers and chamberings will kill deer humanely with shot placement paramount. 22 stuff should best be left to experienced hunters in my opinion and is illegal in some provinces I believe...

Alberta has a minimum caliber of 6mm/.243" bore size, and used to, but no longer does, have a case length minimum requirement.

Here in BC the sole requirement for any large game except bison, is that it be a centerfire. Bison has minimum energy requirements listed, IIRC.
Dunno about points East these days. Never going back that way to hunt, so have not stayed caught up on the changes.

My brother has a Ruger 1 in 25-06. Been trying to talk him out of it for a while!

 

[Brutus]

I've shot whitetail with everything from 22 to 50 cal. Only camberings/cal that are almost 100 percent bang flop within decent range is my 22-250 and naturally a 50 cal muzzle loader slug. Most 30 cal stuff sails on through and typical a whitetail goes 30 or 40 yards before piling up. Settled on a 25-06 decades ago and never looked back. Short of it is most calibers and chamberings will kill deer humanely with shot placement paramount. 22 stuff should best be left to experienced hunters in my opinion and is illegal in some provinces I believe...

Sir I disagree with you. I have predominantly harvested white tail deer with 308, and one with a 30-30 and two with a 30-06, another with archery but that does not count here.
In each of these 30 cals I used a 150 grain factory bullet.
All except for one dropped pretty much where they stood. There was the odd exception, but I say less than three. Heart-lung broadside standing still was what I arrived for. Most harvest shots taken around 100 yards there were a few well under this distance.

This is my own personal experience in South Saskatchewan and North East Alberta.

I never had the luck to take one with a fifty caliber caplock and RB. However these more schooled friends tell me it's fairly common for an average deer to go a short distance before piling up. Much like an archery harvest with a superb strike and full pass through.

Cheers

 

[joe-nwt]

Shoot whatever you have out of a 308. A deer is pretty much the smallest big game animal hunted in NA.

Hello gang I have an opportunity to go deer hunting in Northern Manitoba if I'm allowed I'm a Newfoundland and Labrador metis member and I'm just looking to see what weight bullets you guys suggest I don't want to lose a lot of meat on the small animal.
When I got my moose two years ago I use 180 grain Winchester power point bullets and they hit like sledgehammer against a 4-foot thick oak wall this sounds beautiful a double lung pass and a liver shot and she was down.
Need advice only deer I took before was on a highway lol GTA style as the OPP officer said.

Why wouldn't you be allowed? Just go get an out-of-province tag and go hunting. I do it every year.

 

[rral22]

No, I am using MY personal experiences, and MY personal observations, as counter data to those who repeat the same old lines about a lack of penetration and 'it'll blow up under the skin' as their logic for NOT using those particular rounds or bullets.
What 'everybody knows' gets repeated a lot, by folks without first hand experience to back it up.

Using enough bullet, is not nearly so important an aspect to consider, as is using enough brains. Knowing the capabilities of the rifle used, accuracy wise, and knowing to pick your shots. Especially knowing that there are deer all over the place, and that one walking away unmolested is not the end of the world, so as to avoid taking a shot that does not offer the best odds of a clean hit and kill.

The particular lack-wit of the 7STW story, was a member of a group of guys that thought it was funny to get liquored up and shoot at each others boots drying by their own fire. Not the sharpest of crayons in the box. But he really did believe, that he should have been able to shoot a moose anywhere, and have it die. Because, well, biggest, baddest, fastest, most overhyped, etc. Too bad for the moose.

Well, MY advice to the OP, and to anyone considering the same sort of question, is to ignore those who for some reason want to use the smallest cartridges and bullets for hunting, and start your own hunting by choosing something that no one thinks will create an issue. Perhaps I have been brain deprived all these years, but MY personal observations make me suggest that any bullet for the .308 of 150 to 180 grains in weight will, without doubt and without making it necessary to let deer "walk away unmolested" because you're hunting with a weak choice, be what people with "enough brains" and/or experience have decided is a good choice. No one with experience would suggest that you can't kill a deer with a hot .22. But my best advice is that hunting with the smallest round you can find says something more about the hunter than it does about the effectiveness of any particular cartridge.

I will repeat, use enough gun. Stories about drunken idiots do nothing to change that sound advice which comes from someone whose hunting experience cannot be denied as just "the same old lines" about " what "everybody knows". To ignore good advice just because you think you are smarter, more ethical, a better shot, a better hunter, or that you have more brains than "everyone", is revealing.

 

[trevj]

Well, MY advice to the OP, and to anyone considering the same sort of question, is to ignore those who for some reason want to use the smallest cartridges and bullets for hunting, and start your own hunting by choosing something that no one thinks will create an issue. Perhaps I have been brain deprived all these years, but MY personal observations make me suggest that any bullet for the .308 of 150 to 180 grains in weight will, without doubt and without making it necessary to let deer "walk away unmolested" because you're hunting with a weak choice, be what people with "enough brains" and/or experience have decided is a good choice. No one with experience would suggest that you can't kill a deer with a hot .22. But my best advice is that hunting with the smallest round you can find says something more about the hunter than it does about the effectiveness of any particular cartridge.

I will repeat, use enough gun. Stories about drunken idiots do nothing to change that sound advice which comes from someone whose hunting experience cannot be denied as just "the same old lines" about " what "everybody knows". To ignore good advice just because you think you are smarter, more ethical, a better shot, a better hunter, or that you have more brains than "everyone", is revealing.

Gee. Sorry you feel that way.

I don't take snap shots at running deer. I wait until they are presenting a high odds shot. I will continue to do exactly as you say, use enough gun. Enough for my needs, is apparently ones you consider beneath yours.

Funny (or sad) enough, I have had one runner in 30 odd years of hunting, a buck that stepped off from standing, just as I was breaking the trigger. I got him back 4 hours later, courtesy of the ravens, the coyotes had made a bit of a mess, but I saved most of the meat. That was a 180 through the wrong side of the diaphragm. Which I mention, as a personal observation, that no matter the bullet, if it is not placed where it will kill correctly, and quickly, it isn't worth shooting. And that sometimes, the gods piss in your powder.

This hunting experience that 'cannot be denied'. Does it include actually trying out the stuff you advise against as being incapable? Because I have tried it out, under circumstances that I could live with, and found that the results have not matched the advice that has been given. Fast moving, light bullets have not ever 'blown up under the skin', nor have the deer I shot with them died poorly.

My experiences. Use them as you see fit.

 

[45ACPKING]

I like a 165 to 180 gr bullet for deer as well.
nosler partition for the 165 and I use it as the general purpose round.
Federal power shok sp for the 180gr for all the close range work because my rifle likes it and I notice over the past couple decades , the 180gr dumps those close range deer a whole lot closer to the point of impact than the lighter bullets seem too.
The same for my .303 , 180gr .
most of my dedicated deer hunting is in the steep mountain terrain of the BC west coast ambush hunting black tail mule deer and black bears. Getting a second shot in is a big maybe in that terrain so making the first one count is preferred. The 180's dump those deer , the 150's...… not as well. Where I hunt is different than out east but bullet performance is still the same.
not trying to advise the OP one way or the other, just relating my own preferences. We all know a 150gr or other even lighter 30 cal bullets will also kill a deer just as dead if the shot is well placed. The 7.62x39 hunters among us are usual quick to attest to that hehehe

 

[rral22]

This hunting experience that 'cannot be denied'. Does it include actually trying out the stuff you advise against as being incapable? .

My experiences. Use them as you see fit.

Use Enough Gun is the title of a book by Robert Ruark. You should google him to see if he has real experience. The fact you don't know that is a point for me.