Deer: to adjust my shot placement or not?

Juster said:
deer-skeleton-2.jpg
deer-organs-3.jpg

I'm always puzzled when the organs bear no relationship to the skeleton. The lungs expand to fill the ribcage in the living animal, except in Anatomy for Hunters. And why are we shown the esophagus?
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I didn't do the drawing, but the lungs should be inside the ribs...maybe showing the esophagus is a reminder to be sure to remove it when dressing a deer...
 
Not a bad question at all and shot placement IS multiple choice. I've talked to several people that hunt in Africa and many of them would not go for a lung shot, only a shoulder hit to drop them where they stand. I've always gone for the typical LUNG shot (A in your pic) but last year the only large vital spot was the shoulder. The deer dropped "like a bag of cement", not even 1 step and in very thick bush it worked very well. I agree with EMERSON, and I quote, "slightly higher than B......Lungers don't drop on the spot." Having said that, I try for the lung shot. It's large and leaves the "most margin for error". Best of luck.
 
9.3mauser said:
I can't see any reason for deliberately shooting for bone on a deer. I can see some justification on sheep or goats, or even moose, that may wind up somewhere where it's impossible to retrieve. A shoulder hit is going to ruin a lot of meat, and if you hit the shoulder blade you'll send shards of bone everywhere. Deer don't normally run too far with a simple lung shot behind the shoulder.
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Two of the three deer I shot this fall were purposely shot in the high shoulder but that was because I switched to TTSX bullets this year. Both those shoulder shot deer dropped on the spot, there was no fragmented bone,,,,just broken bone, and no concernable meat loss. I'm not kidding when I say you can eat the meat right up to the bullet hole using the TTSX. Both those deer were in the 75-100 yard range give or take. Choosing Barnes TTSX gives you a little more room for error because it increases the size of your pie plate (minute of deer) because they'll do the job whether you hit A, B, or the "off switch", as posted on one of the diagrams because you don't need to be concerned with meat loss.
 
sure as shootin said:
Two of the three deer I shot this fall were purposely shot in the high shoulder but that was because I switched to TTSX bullets this year. Both those shoulder shot deer dropped on the spot, there was no fragmented bone,,,,just broken bone, and no concernable meat loss. I'm not kidding when I say you can eat the meat right up to the bullet hole using the TTSX. Both those deer were in the 75-100 yard range give or take. Choosing Barnes TTSX gives you a little more room for error because it increases the size of your pie plate (minute of deer) because they'll do the job whether you hit A, B, or the "off switch", as posted on one of the diagrams because you don't need to be concerned with meat loss.
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Well done! Barnes X bullets are good aren't they...
 
Juster said:
deer-skeleton-2.jpg
deer-organs-3.jpg

I'm always puzzled when the organs bear no relationship to the skeleton. The lungs expand to fill the ribcage in the living animal, except in Anatomy for Hunters. And why are we shown the esophagus?
Click to expand...

I get the impression that they are showing the artery, not the esophagus in that second picture. But who knows. Artists! :)

Not a great representation, as you point out.

Cheers
Trev
 
Deer are funny critters.I have had a 8 point buck drop like a metal silhouette target without even a twitch after the shot. Like a brain hit. That hit was in the shoulder from the side with a 180 Rem corlokt out of a .308 with no exit. I have had 2 fawns run 75 yards after perfect lung hits, with a 7mm Remington mag using 175gr corlokts. Both cases the animals were unaware of me until the shot.
I have seen countless times where deer ran with lung hits up to 80 yards, sometimes with no blood trail. I am fully convinced that light, fast, frangible bullets are the way to go if you are stand hunting and can pick your shots through the lungs.

In your .308 I would use 150 grain corelokts, Fusion, SSTs, ballistic tips etc in that situation and know with a good shot the tracking trail will be VERY short, if there is one.

If hunting the way I do, where on a watch and someone is driving the deer past you, I would prefer a bullet that holds together and can punch through both sides, or take a shoulder knuckle and keep moving. In this case deer are usually "walking fast" with their head down and forward trying to get away from someone else, or running full out. I prefer a bullet that will break bones if hit and keep going, and will leave an exit wound for extra blood trail. It is hard to guarantee a perfect hit through brush and trees under these circumstances. I still pick my shot, and pass on low percentage shots, but seldom get a perfect side pose from the animal. This is where I prefer premium bullets such as the Barnes X series, the Nosler partition, GMX etc.

I just switched from .44Mag for driving duties, and .308 on watch. Longest shot possible where we are is 100 yards. Both worked fine but I have used that combo for 15 years. Just went down to one rifle for all duties and it is in 45-70. I broke it in on a small bear the other day. Broadside, through the lungs at 60 yards. Bear jumped 10 feet and died on the spot. Perfect. Ammo was the VERY frangible 325 LeverEvolution. Obliterated both lungs and got an exit. Won't be taking that load for moosie unless on a watch, but damn that bear died quick through the lungs.
 
B is for bears LOL
a few inches below A..... maybe 2 or 3 at most but otherwise A.
I like to slip em in an inch above and back from the elbow. In 20+ years of hunting, I have never lost or had to track an animal hit with such a shot, deer, moose, elk.... not one.
twice I've taken head/neck shots on deer , both well under 100 yards and I've only lost/non recovered 2 animals in my hunting career.... those two deer. It still amazes (and sickens) me to this day.
 
Bx10
Started with A
switched to B.
This lesson learned has cut down on the amount of tracking done.
Doesn't ruin much meat either.
The closer to the top of the heart you aim the more likely you are to hit the large blood vessels located there.
Blowing holes in the lungs (air bags) just isn't as effective.
 
jeff270 said:
Bx10
Started with A
switched to B.
This lesson learned has cut down on the amount of tracking done.
Doesn't ruin much meat either.
The closer to the top of the heart you aim the more likely you are to hit the large blood vessels located there.
Blowing holes in the lungs (air bags) just isn't as effective.
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I agree, sometimes it is the best shot to take.

Here are some pictures of a deer I shot last week. He was on a deer trail about 100 feet above me and I didn't want him go anywhere other than straight down at the shot. (There is a very nasty little ravine about 20 feet from where he was walking.) Range was ~175 yards and the bullet was a Nosler 168 E-Tip launched out of my 300 WSM @ 3000 fps.

The entry was through the near leg blowing off the top of the heart and lower lungs and exiting out through the off leg. I do my own butchering and managed to save all but about 4 pounds of edible meat. (I did spend an extra hour or so cleaning "jelly" from between the muscle layers.)

ENTRY
300wsm_entry_hide.jpg
300wsm_entry_closeup.jpg

300wsm_entry_interior.jpg




EXIT
300wsm_exit.jpg
300wsm_exit_interior.jpg
 
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I aim for the back edge of the front leg, bring the sight up to the middle of the shoulder, then move it down a little. Making my broadside shots "A". But any round entering with in a pie plate area around both A or B will drop a deer.
 
jeff270 said:
Bx10
Started with A
switched to B.
This lesson learned has cut down on the amount of tracking done.
Doesn't ruin much meat either.
The closer to the top of the heart you aim the more likely you are to hit the large blood vessels located there.
Blowing holes in the lungs (air bags) just isn't as effective.
Click to expand...

more often than not, the shot I mention above, obliterates the top of the heart, so "A" is not just simply a lung shot and I'd argue that such a shot impacts the core blood holding region of the animal which is the hearts connection to the lungs.

it's all moot tho really, both points of aim will get the job done in an ethical manner, that we can all agree.
caliber choice , bullet construction/weight/speed I think have more of a bearing on shot placement vs meat damage and should be considered before worrying which of A and B is the better shot. My .303 brit hunting deer at close range ambush style, will punch thru and break bones without major meat shock and huge wound channel, but it drops deer in their tracks. My 7mm rem mag on the same hunt..... big wound channels, hit bones are shattered and pulverized.... major meat shock thru the muscle layers. Both points of aim broad side, under 40 yards, general area of aiming point A. Bones hit were rib and opposing scapula.
 
B. I aim for the heart on standing broadside. Trotting I centre it more towards A . Don't like asking for permission to track or retrieve deer.
 
I like shoulder/lung combo shots. Immobilize and critically injure - and let the pump keep pumping all that blood out.

I'm OK with a few pounds of meat loss if it means I don't have to track an animal. Haven't had to yet, and don't intend to start now. I like to eat the heart, too.
 
There's a great video on YouTube...look up "On target 404 - shot placement on whitetails"
They stress an accurate rifle and fast ammo...they recommend point of the shoulder for an instant kill...looks like a lightning bolt hit them....have a look
In my experience, there's never the same scenario that unfolds so placement is often dictated by the variables given. However, the one that never changes is the need for you to stay calm and focused...take your time, breathe and squeeze...save the shakes for when youre standing over your beast.
 
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Culprit13 said:
There's a great video on YouTube...look up "On target 405 - shot placement on whitetails"
They stress an accurate rifle and fast ammo...they recommend point of the shoulder for an instant kill...looks like a lightning bolt hit them....have a look
In my experience, there's never the same scenario that unfolds so placement is often dictated by the variables given. However, the one that never changes is the need for you to stay calm and focused...take your time, breathe and squeeze...save the shakes for when youre standing over your beast.
Click to expand...

Berger bullets work well when placed this way, according to many videos I've seen. Lightning bolt is right.
 
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