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Lead hammer

Lead hammer

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Ok, quick question, slow fire is as slow as you like. Rapid fire is as fast as you like. Typically when I shoot slow fire it's like 1 shot every 2-4 seconds. As I'm new, my rapid fire groups still suck. What groups should I be able to get at 10m. Going like IPSC speed. Just looking to have a reference or realistic goal.
(Previously posted a 3" group slow fire at 10m.)
 
10 yards, slow fire, 2" group if not smaller.

I'd define IPSC speed as "shooting as fast as you can put holes in the A zone" so that a pretty big group ;)
 
If you are talking true IPSC, you wouldn't be worried about how tight of a group at 10m at "IPSC speed" (which I quantify as 0.2-0.25 second splits) but only worried about getting both in the A zone.

Just work on building speed while maintaining acceptable accuracy. Acceptable accuracy is defined by you. For me, when shooting at speed, it's an 8 inch circle. For some, it might 1" but these people will never shoot fast. Now I'm not saying accuracy and speed are mutually exclusive but I'm saying of all the shooters I know, some are like me and would rather get 5 shots into an 8" circle in 1.5 seconds; while others will always take their time, never push their speed, but shoot tighter groups.

Stick the target at 10m, and if you currently shoot 1 shot every 4 seconds, try for 1 every 3 seconds, 1 every 2.5 seconds, etc etc. Buy a shot timer as I feel this is critical to pushing yourself. And I would say do it until you're satisfied but really you should never be happy with your skill and always want to go faster/more accurate.
 
Sambaru said:
If you are talking true IPSC, you wouldn't be worried about how tight of a group at 10m at "IPSC speed" (which I quantify as 0.2-0.25 second splits) but only worried about getting both in the A zone.

Just work on building speed while maintaining acceptable accuracy. Acceptable accuracy is defined by you. For me, when shooting at speed, it's an 8 inch circle. For some, it might 1" but these people will never shoot fast. Now I'm not saying accuracy and speed are mutually exclusive but I'm saying of all the shooters I know, some are like me and would rather get 5 shots into an 8" circle in 1.5 seconds; while others will always take their time, never push their speed, but shoot tighter groups.

Stick the target at 10m, and if you currently shoot 1 shot every 4 seconds, try for 1 every 3 seconds, 1 every 2.5 seconds, etc etc. Buy a shot timer as I feel this is critical to pushing yourself. And I would say do it until you're satisfied but really you should never be happy with your skill and always want to go faster/more accurate.
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Excellent thanks. I will practice rapid fire speed by keeping that 8" group in mind as I speed up my times, if my groups open up more than 8", then I will know I'm getting ahead of myself.
 
Really depends on what level of accuracy you're looking for. As mentioned anything a zone is more than acceptable. If you play bullseye then that kind of accuracy isn't acceptable.

Tdc
 
TDC said:
Really depends on what level of accuracy you're looking for. As mentioned anything a zone is more than acceptable. If you play bullseye then that kind of accuracy isn't acceptable.

Tdc
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Well I used to compete in Olympic class archery, so accuracy is very important to me and I will have my best target results posted on the wall by my reloading bench to keep me motivated. Speed is equally important(and fun), so I will practice everything. Thanks guys.
 
Even with my old guy eyes and shakey old guy nerves I never had much problem with making 1.5" groups at 10 yards once I learned the proper basics.

For rapid "IPSC like" fire I look for 8 out of 10 shots within that 6x11 tombstone A zone. And the two out of ten that don't quite make it I want to see within an inch of the line.

Keep in mind that the IPSC and IDPA targets are especially made so that you cannot see the zone lines easily unless the light is hitting the target just right. The idea in those games is to aim for just a little above the center of the whole target.

When I first started out with the rapid fire stuff part of it was to learn to just see the sights fall back to more or less the center of mass just above the middle of the target. You're not looking for an absolutely accurate sight picture in this case. Just something that is "close enough" and go with it. But the goal is still to maintain your focus on the front blade and not actually on the target.

Which might explain why I like the fiber front sights so much.....
 
BC rider, when I first tried rapid fire ( slower than all of you I'm sure ) I realized timing and grip seemed most important, like you mentioned getting the pistol to momentarily rest wher you started. So much to learn, so little time and money for ammo haha

I can see some reloading time coming up quick. Actually, anybody rapid fire with factory recoiling ammo? As that's what I have been shooting. All the vids show target loads.
 
Lead hammer said:
BC rider, when I first tried rapid fire ( slower than all of you I'm sure ) I realized timing and grip seemed most important, like you mentioned getting the pistol to momentarily rest wher you started. So much to learn, so little time and money for ammo haha

I can see some reloading time coming up quick. Actually, anybody rapid fire with factory recoiling ammo? As that's what I have been shooting. All the vids show target loads.
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factory vs reloaded ammo doesnt really make that much of a difference, give me my gun filled with either and you wouldnt be able to tell the difference in speed without a timer
 
heavenIsAlie said:
factory vs reloaded ammo doesnt really make that much of a difference, give me my gun filled with either and you wouldnt be able to tell the difference in speed without a timer
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Good to know, I would have thought a higher recoil would be more work to keep the gun on target, but I guess the grip would take care of that.
 
it makes a difference, but not one your are really going to see from a video unless they show you the splits on a timer afterwards where there may be an extra couple tenths on a split (depending on the shooter). Recoil control is mostly about grip, with your stance being second in importance and then just familiarity through volume of shooting
 
This topic is timely for me because I've found myself losing focus on the front sight post when shooting faster, esp with transitions. My eyes will start to focus on the target or rear sight instead of where they need to. So I started doing some exercises. I staple two pieces of paper to the target stand 8m away as in the pic below and I will draw a few rectangles on it. Then I'll work on keeping the front sight post in focus and shoot at the rectangles, randomly moving from rectangle to rectangle each shot. I'm doing this with .22LR since the basics like focal target can be done cheaply :)

Then I shoot as fast as I can while maintaining some sense of accuracy. I've seen a big improvement in accuracy after a couple evenings. Time to bump up the speed again. :)

FSPpractice_zps3296ad66.jpg
 
It's amazing but our hands are pretty good springs. The gun will kick within our grip but with a proper supportive hold it actually returns pretty darn close to the original position. Out to about 10 yards I've been able to quite commonly fire off a double tap where I don't even try to aim the second shot. And more often than not the two shots will be within 6 inches or less of each other.

There's a lot of the drills and shooting skills that can be practiced with a .22. But rapid fire is best done with the center fire ammo you intend to use for matches so that you're working with the proper amount of recoil energy.

The ammo typically reloaded for shooting matches such as IPSC and IDPA is only slightly softer shooting than regular factory ammo. The nature of the semi auto pistol requires that there be enough power in the round to cycle the gun. Also the requirements for power factor means that the ammo can't be downloaded by all that much.

I'm not trying to toot my own horn in all this. Instead I'm suggesting what should be possible for you as easily as it's possible for me. The key is to get the basic hold of the gun and steadiness of grip and mental focus on properly pulling the trigger while locking your focus on the front sight hovering on the target. If you're not able to shoot this well yet then issues such as grip and flinching come to mind. Also snatching at the trigger instead of smoothly building pressure is another.
 
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