Delete please

C

coldblood

Regular
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Location
Alberta
Ok, my first thread here. I did the search. Found lots of usefull info about Glock - thank you!

Now the question:

To take this off the way - I absolutely love to shoot both Glock and CZ. I fired G17, G17C, G22, CZ75B, CZ85combat, CZSP01 tactical and shadow. I put numerous rounds through them .9 and .40. All of them I rented in the range.

I am planning to compete in Production division. So, I will spend lots of time with either practicing. Now, as much as I love CZ, after 200 rounds I feel fatique develops in my strong hand (my stance is ok, my range officer is happy with it, so, no, it is not HOW I shoot). With Glock, I do not have this problem. I can shoot all day long (depends on my paycheck *grin*) and still feel crisp and ready, lol.
However, my accuracy results are better with CZ. I guess, because it is metal frame, it compensates recoil better. I tried G17C(comp model) - comp does not improve it much, besides, you cannot compete with C models anyway.

Another plus toward the Glock - carabine kit conversions! Yeah, baby! Really tacticool looking! If I get Glock, I definitely will look to buy a conversion to carabine kit. With CZ you cannot do something like that, I guess. Also, the weight of CZ will take all the fun to shoot the converted carabine... Well, I can always look into CZ858...(day dreaming...back to subject).

Soooo, dear CANADIAN GNz (I still cannot believe my luck that I found your forum! YAY :dancingbanana:!!!) the question remains:
G17 or CZ SP-01 Tactical for my needs! No, I cannot afford to buy both. I have to chose.

Another good point for Glock - Glock conversion kit to .22 has better reviews performance wise and simplicity of assembly/field strip than CZ conversion cadet kit.

One more thing...I promise! In Production division, 9mm considered "minor" - less points. So, I would like to go with .40 to make it "major". My experience shooting both in .40 (G22 and CZSP01tactical) - recoil is not much different than with 9mm but fatique still comes quicker with .40....

Decisions, decisions....

HELP!!!

ps. Did I mention that I overkill things? :ar15: Yeah, like the length of this post! Sorry for that...:redface:
 
first of all there is no major in production division in IPSC so the 9 -40 thing shouldn't be an issue , secondly 200 rounds than experiencing fatigue shouldn't be an issue either other than at practice or the BB course , most matches other than the big ones will be less than that for total shots over the day . So get what you shoot the best and are most accurate with . Lots of practice will help with fatigue.
 
eh class said:
first of all there is no major in production division in IPSC so the 9 -40 thing shouldn't be an issue , secondly 200 rounds than experiencing fatigue shouldn't be an issue either other than at practice or the BB course , most matches other than the big ones will be less than that for total shots over the day . So get what you shoot the best and are most accurate with . Lots of practice will help with fatigue.
Click to expand...

Yep. You are right. I just re-read the rules (IPSC Rulebook handguns, 2009 edition). Minor/major is n/a to production! Which is, actually good news! 9mm ammo is cheaper. I am in the dark because I still did not take my BB course. The first availble to me - summer time. :) So, I think I am gonna print the whole damn thing and study thoroughly, lol!:)
 
Not sure what the difference between the Shadow and the Tactical are, since I shoot an 85C for IDPA. IIRC, the Shadow seems to be the CZ of choice for IPSC Production. I also have a G17 that I have shot for many years. The G17 has a 3.5lb connector in it, various tweaked springs, and a lot of rounds to smooth it out. My 85C has a CZ comp hammer, tweaked springs, and also a fair number of rounds to smooth it out. I like them both, just depends on what you want to train to get used to. The Glock is lighter and easier to strip, and I find mine less fussy about ammo than my CZ. My 85C has a nicer trigger, but you do need to get used to the DA/SA switch if you are shooting hammer down out of the holster (IPSC Prod or IDPA SSP).

I think the carbine conversions are a bit of a gimmick and would recommend you save your $$ until you can afford an AR.

I also had an Advantage Arms conversion kit for my G17, and still have a Kadet kit for the 85C. I think the Kadet is a much more useful option. The AA kit is nice and worked very well but it makes the gun feel like a toy. The only weight in a Glock is the slide. When you replace this with an aluminum slide it makes the gun weigh nothing. It's actually a bit of a challenge to shoot well since it is so light. The Kadet kit is steel and weighs pretty much the same as the 9mm top end, so the gun feels the same except for the recoil.
 
i like the g19.

but....you should buy what feels right to you in your hands.
+1 for the aftermarket glock parts.
 
If you use a glock for ipsc there is no external safety to worry about, just draw the gun..point...aim and hit A.
There was a guy using a beretta in my BB course that needs to decocked, safety before he can move to next target great disadvantage.
 
glock35 said:
If you use a glock for ipsc there is no external safety to worry about, just draw the gun..point...aim and hit A.
There was a guy using a beretta in my BB course that needs to decocked, safety before he can move to next target great disadvantage.
Click to expand...

Shadow is cocked and locked or ready to fire only. No decocker, moot point.
 
I have both and compete with both.
While the trigger is a bit better with the CZ, the accuracy difference between the two is negligable, especially shooting IPSC.
Overall the Glock 17 will prove to be far more durable and they cost less.

You can be as competitive with one as you can with the other - what counts is how much and how you practice and how many rounds you send down range.
 
bollox said:
Shadow is cocked and locked or ready to fire only. No decocker, moot point.
Click to expand...
IPSC production class must start with the hammer down. With the Shadow that means lowering it manually. My pick is still the CZ but you have to be ok with lowering the hammer without a de-cocker. I was on the range a couple of weeks ago when a guys thumb slipped off during LAMR - bang! Lesson learned by everyone who saw it.
 
glock35 said:
There was a guy using a beretta in my BB course that needs to decocked, safety before he can move to next target great disadvantage.
Click to expand...
That's the way they teach it on the course, but the rules only say "the safety should be applied", not "shall". It's only mandatory to have your finger outside during movement. No real disadvantage to de-cockers.
 
I like the G19 better than the G17, but most new (Canada-legal) G19 barrels are of aftermarket manufacture. An aftermarket barrel would force you out of IPSC Production Division and into Standard Division (unless you fail to register in Standard, in which case you might be scored in Open Division).

If competition in IPSC Production is the intent, the Glock to use is the G17.
 
The Glock 17 is a fine firearm and was the winningest gun in IPSC PD until the CZ75 Shadow came along.

I have no experience with the Tactical, so I cannot comment on it, other than to state that the reviews I have read suggests the trigger is not as good as the Shadow. I've shot my BILs Shadow a bit and my Glock a lot. If I was to get back into IPSC I would buy a Shadow, not a Tactical, but I would not sell my Glock 17, which was good enough for me to qualify for the Australian team back in the pre-Shadow days.

Based on your post I suggest you buy a Glock. If it is more comfortable for you to shoot then that is a plus point. The lower bore axis of the Glock means your hand is not being twisted as much and the frame does flex a little, helping to lower the recoil impulse. It will not be as competitive as the Shadow, but may be as good as the Tactical. FWIW, you only have to decock at LAMR, for the rest of the stage you can leave the CZ in single action mode.
 
If fatique is a factor then you might split the difference and go with the CZ 75B or 85 Combat. Both are lighter than the Shadow but heavier than the Glock. IF you are just starting out accuracy/reliability is a wash between all the guns muntioned here. Until you reach Master Class any of the mainstream DA guns will do you nicely. If you shoot the Glock well then go with the Glock.

Last year I lent my stock M&P 9MM to a Master Class shooter for our IDPA Provincials. He beat me by over 50 seconds over the match using my gun. I used my Shadow. It is the archer not the arrow.

Buy the gun you are comfortable with and have fun.

Take Care

Bob
 
rhs said:
Not sure what the difference between the Shadow and the Tactical are, since I shoot an 85C for IDPA. IIRC, the Shadow seems to be the CZ of choice for IPSC Production. I also have a G17 that I have shot for many years. The G17 has a 3.5lb connector in it, various tweaked springs, and a lot of rounds to smooth it out. My 85C has a CZ comp hammer, tweaked springs, and also a fair number of rounds to smooth it out. I like them both, just depends on what you want to train to get used to. The Glock is lighter and easier to strip, and I find mine less fussy about ammo than my CZ. My 85C has a nicer trigger, but you do need to get used to the DA/SA switch if you are shooting hammer down out of the holster (IPSC Prod or IDPA SSP).

I think the carbine conversions are a bit of a gimmick and would recommend you save your $$ until you can afford an AR.

I also had an Advantage Arms conversion kit for my G17, and still have a Kadet kit for the 85C. I think the Kadet is a much more useful option. The AA kit is nice and worked very well but it makes the gun feel like a toy. The only weight in a Glock is the slide. When you replace this with an aluminum slide it makes the gun weigh nothing. It's actually a bit of a challenge to shoot well since it is so light. The Kadet kit is steel and weighs pretty much the same as the 9mm top end, so the gun feels the same except for the recoil.
Click to expand...

The difference between Tactical and Shadow is that the former has a decocker and the latter has manual safety. Otherwise, they are pretty identical.

I had problems with certain ammo with CZ as well. It absolutely hates aluminum case ammo and sometimes had jams using Rem FMJ. It would jam the empty case while the live round is sent to the chamber.

I agree about AR. Need more patience, lol :)
 
glock35 said:
If you use a glock for ipsc there is no external safety to worry about, just draw the gun..point...aim and hit A.
There was a guy using a beretta in my BB course that needs to decocked, safety before he can move to next target great disadvantage.
Click to expand...

I was actually a bit worried about that. When you draw CZ, yes, you have to take the safety off (extra time) however with the Glock where you have no safety - how safe it is during the draw or putting the gun back to the holster? I know - keep you b-ger finger of the bang hook - but can the trigger accidently contact the rim of the holster and go bang when you draw or put it back? :redface: This is actually my only concern about Glock.

As for decocker - I did not know that! I thought this is an advantage! That's why I was looking at Tactical vs Shadow! But if the decocker gives more grief striping the gun or using it, than, no, I would rather have some gun with manual (shadow) or no safety (Glock) at all. :redface:
 
Viper26 said:
IPSC production class must start with the hammer down. With the Shadow that means lowering it manually. My pick is still the CZ but you have to be ok with lowering the hammer without a de-cocker. I was on the range a couple of weeks ago when a guys thumb slipped off during LAMR - bang! Lesson learned by everyone who saw it.
Click to expand...

Yes, yes and hell yes! Scaries the living sh*t out of me! So, I need something that I do not need to lower hummer manually.

Ahh, dead end again!

CZ Shadow - you need to lower the hammer - will not work for me - I think while being in the cometition first couple of times, I definitely be nervous and can do a mistake with hammer... I know myself. This is NOT an option.

CZ Tactical - has a decocker but harder to field-strip.

Glock - does not have manual safety which makes me a bit nervous about drawing the gun and putting it back in holster!

:nest:
 
Canuck44 said:
...If you shoot the Glock well then go with the Glock.

.... It is the archer not the arrow.

Buy the gun you are comfortable with and have fun.

Take Care

Bob
Click to expand...


Well, I confess...I do like to shoot Glock better than CZ. I also may consider to buy air Glock for practice - cheaper than .22 conversion kit and does pretty much the same job for trigger control practicing. Let alone - .177 way cheaper than anything, lol. I've bought 1250 corssman HP pellets for 9.99$ in Canadian tire last weekend for my Colt 1911 (air), lol. :) Now, what ammo is cheaper than that? lol :)

So, the only two problems I have with GLock are:

1. If I understood correctly - I do not need to lower the hammer in Glock - right?

2. Does the lack of manual safety in Glock can cause accidental discharge (granted, with trigger finger off the trigger) just by catching on the holster rim during the draw/putting back?

If the answer for both of those questions - "NO", than, no doubt, I have chosen my gun! ;)
 
Viper26 said:
Decision made! Now wasn't that easy? :)
Click to expand...

Actually, you have no idea! :p How many sleepless nights searching for the truth in the internet, how many rounds of ammo wasted on other platforms/guns, how many embarassing moments bugging Glock guys in the range to let me shoot it, etc etc...

But, if you ask me, it's all worth it and yes, I would do it again!:D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom