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coldblood

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Just wonder what would be the application of the fixed magnification scope?

How do you deal with situation when you have fixed mag scope mounted on your rifle and you need to shoot the target from close range and then quickly aquire another target at longer range that scope allows to magnify?

Is there any additional setup required (optics, sights) if you use fixed mag scope?

Thanks. :redface:
 
Fixed scopes strengths are that they have less moving parts and so are less prone to breakage, and also, the shooter is never surprised by looking through the scope and seeing a different magnification than he was expecting.

Not to sure about your question regarding short range targets and long range targets...Just sight in your scope as you would any other, say, 200 yard zero. Then hold under if your target is considerably closer and hold over if it is farther. If you are shooting larger game with fair sized kill-zones, using a bullet with a high BC will also allow you to hold dead-on in most shooting situations, and not worry about bullet drop.
 
I have fixed 4 power scopes on my 270 and 300

I had a 2-7 on my 243 and it never came off 4 power.

For my eyes and shooting ability, if looks too far away on 4 power, it is.

I just got a vintage 7x57 with a fixed 2.5 that'll be my new deer gun if it shoots.
 
Fixed scopes strengths are that they have less moving parts and so are less prone to breakage, and also, the shooter is never surprised by looking through the scope and seeing a different magnification than he was expecting.

Not to sure about your question regarding short range targets and long range targets...Just sight in your scope as you would any other, say, 200 yard zero. Then hold under if your target is considerably closer and hold over if it is farther. If you are shooting larger game with fair sized kill-zones, using a bullet with a high BC will also allow you to hold dead-on in most shooting situations, and not worry about bullet drop.

Read your comment, went for a smoke, now I get it! :p

Thank you, guys, for response. My neighbor "kicked" my a$$ yesterday (he is around 70 years old) for using variable mag scopes on my rifles. He uses exclusively fixed scopes on his rifles and says exactly the same thing about keeping magnification "with no surprises" for longer range. I was thinking to mount fixed scope high and add irons (for close range) but he said it's bad idea to mount scope that high.
 
Read your comment, went for a smoke, now I get it! :p

Thank you, guys, for response. My neighbor "kicked" my a$$ yesterday (he is around 70 years old) for using variable mag scopes on my rifles. He uses exclusively fixed scopes on his rifles and says exactly the same thing about keeping magnification "with no surprises" for longer range. I was thinking to mount fixed scope high and add irons (for close range) but he said it's bad idea to mount scope that high.

He is right the closer the center line of the scope is to the center line of the barrel the better.
 
Just wonder what would be the application of the fixed magnification scope?

How do you deal with situation when you have fixed mag scope mounted on your rifle and you need to shoot the target from close range and then quickly aquire another target at longer range that scope allows to magnify?

Is there any additional setup required (optics, sights) if you use fixed mag scope?

Thanks. :redface:

Am I correct in assuming that, based on you referral to quickly engaging multiple targets at various ranges, you are specifically asking your question in relation to military-style semi-auto rifles and carbines?
 
Am I correct in assuming that, based on you referral to quickly engaging multiple targets at various ranges, you are specifically asking your question in relation to military-style semi-auto rifles and carbines?

That too. ;) I hope to like what I see this weekend at service rifle match and check what optics they use. If I like it, I want to start practicing for that. :redface: But I also thought if predator (or game) surprises you at close range while you preping to take a kill at longer range. That kinda deal. :redface:
 
Here is the rationale for the quality variable-power optic on a carbine.

From Larry Vickers:

http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/short-dot/


S&B CQB Short Dot Scope

This article is intended to fill in the blanks on the history and development of the Schmidt & Bender CQB Short Dot 1.1 – 4 x 20mm scope. I hope this answers some questions about the details of this optic.

A need for a milspec low powered variable optic came up after Somalia in 1993. Bad guys mixed with civilians were sticking their heads around corners 100 meters or farther down an alley or street in order to gain situational awareness on the whereabouts of US forces operating in that area. The Aimpoint setup being used at that time did not provide any ability for target discrimination. This was a real problem for those GI’s posted outside for external security.

A market search was done and at that time the closest thing that could be found was a scope called a Microdot; a 1.5 – 4 powered optic that had a red dot like a reflex sight. These were used for quite a while and served well considering they were made for civilian non milspec activities like sport shooting, hunting, etc. Shortly after these were fielded a major US scope company was approached about making a more milspec 1 – 3 or 1 – 4 powered optic with a red dot capability. This particular company makes milspec scopes but was (and still is) primarily a hunting/sporting scope company that has historically put little effort into the military/LE side of things – and was way behind the power curve on illuminated reticles or dots in scopes. After a couple years a prototype was seen that had allot of promise but still no red dot. It had other features also that were not applicable and after some T&E it went back to the factory with a list of things to change/enhance.

A few more years pass with no sign of a Gen II version when a phone call is received saying the scope is ready with good news and bad news; they are in production and can be received ASAP but you take what you get – no changes. This was not received well as the concept of this scope was brought to the attention of this company by a particular spec ops organization and it was finalized with no further input except for a T&E prototype years before. Once the final production sample showed up and was virtually the same as the prototype, flaws and all, except with a poorly executed illuminated reticle/dot, the die was cast – other vendors were going to be solicited for product. To say there was disappointment in this scope would be an understatement.

All the major scope makers were approached with none being interested in helping except for Schmidt & Bender. I had a S&B scope, knew of their reputation, and had heard they were very responsive to user needs. I also knew they made a hunting scope called a 1.25 – 4 x 20mm flashdot. After meeting with the CEO Hans Bender we decided the best approach was to modify the existing flashdot to suit our needs. A list of specs was draw up by me and presented to Hans. They were:

1.) 1 – 4 x 20
2.) External adjustments in 1/2 moa elevation and windage
3.) BDC cams for 5.56mm green tip, 75 gr Hornady, and 7.62mm M118LR for 16 and 20 inch barrel SR 25’s
4.) Detents between the red dot brightness adjustments to allow the user to turn the dot off between settings
5.) Make the first few brightness settings for NVG use then day light use for the settings after that
6.) Shorten the scope as much as possible
7.) Install the then new Zenith short throw variable power ring
8.) Keep the dot size of the flashdot – approx 5.5 moa

In a little over one month S&B had a prototype ready for me that was approx 80% of the Gen I Short Dot we know today. Additional testing and refinement occurred and approx one year after my initial contact with S&B a contract was let for several hundred Gen I CQB Short Dot scopes as it was now called. The final specs were as above with the following tweaks:

1.) The first 6 settings are for NVG use
2.) An 8 hour automatic battery shut off
3.) A ’skeletonized’ mil dot reticle which means on 4 power it can be used as a mildot reticle for ranging but on 1.1 power it will virtually disappear allowing the eye to pick up the dot quicker. The downside to this is with no red dot on it can be hard to see on 1.1 power.

The minimum power setting was 1.1 due to the fact that the original flashdot was designed to be a 1.25 power – when you made it a 1 power it actually had a slight ‘ghost’ image (the inside of the tube at the objective end) when your eye got closer than normal for proper eye relief. 1.1 power made this go away with very little to no difference for up close reflex work. Also it is worthy to note that the reticle is in the first focal plane which means it grows in direct proportion to the target; in the real world this means you can mil dot at any power setting. Also it means your zero cannot shift during magnification as the reticle is not moving. I once thought this was critical but with a scope such as this ranging with the mildot reticle can only realistically be achieved at 4 power so I have changed my position on this point of discussion. What has turned out to be the great advantage the Short Dot has over other low powered variable scopes is the fact it is extremely forgiving in the areas of eye relief and eye positioning compared to other magnified optics. This allows it to be used much more like a reflex sight than other scopes. Most users would agree this more than anything separates the Short Dot from any competitors.

The Gen II Short Dot came about when some users complained about accidentally turning the external adjustment knobs during vigorous activities. In hind sight I wish I would have had the Gen I prototype made with a feature S&B offers for their hunting scopes; a low profile windage adjustment cover that houses a spare battery. The external click adjustments would go away but to me they are not a must have and a spare battery would be better. This may have prevented the Gen II development also as the windage adjustment is much more prone to accidental adjustment. Live and learn.

The Gen II Short Dot has only 2 BDC’s – green tip and M118LR. The knobs are larger also. The key difference is they are spring loaded and are locked into position when in the ‘down’ position and in order to adjust them you pull up all the way and adjust – release and they will spring back into the locked position. Very slick.

Mark Cromwell at the 2006 SHOT Show showed me a prototype Short Dot 2; not to be confused with a Gen II version (even though it shares the locking turret design). It is a second focal plane scope so the dot does not grow with the magnification (approx 5.5 moa at 1.1 power and 1.6 moa on 4 power) and a spare battery cap instead of external windage adjustment. In addition it had a German post style reticle (S&B type # 2 with flashdot) for better non red dot use on 1.1 magnification. In also had a 24mm objective instead of a 20mm of the Short Dot 1. Having received one from S&B for T&E, I think overall it is better than the first version. Reticle design remains tricky as the skeletonized reticle of the first version is still better for red dot use but the #2 style reticle of the second version is better without the dot. As of right now the verdict is out whether S&B will make the Short Dot 2 a regular production scope. I hope they will as in many ways it is a product improved Short Dot 1.

Regardless of the model the end result is a low powered variable scope that is without peer on the market today. It is rather large and heavy (particularly compared to an Aimpoint)and is admittedly very expensive but it offers features no other scope has; as far as I know the NVG intensity adjustments, the auto battery shut off and the new Gen II locking turrets are found on no other scope on the market. Another very unique feature that end users like is the intensity adjustments and the ability to turn ‘off’ the dot with one click, and turn the dot ‘on’ to your preferred intensity with one click. Despite the integration of cutting edge technology for a scope, problems have been very few (we all know about man made items) and S&B is very responsive when a problem arises. Amazingly this is being written approx three years after the introduction of the Short Dot and it still has no real competition regardless of price. I am very surprised at this unforeseen development to say the least.

What I find is if someone has the scope on their rifle, they love it; they have committed to it and have decided the features it provides are ones that appeal to them and their needs. If there is a better general purpose tactical rifle optic in the world today I don’t know what it is.

I will close this out plugging Schmidt & Bender and Larue Tactical. I now currently own a total of seven S&B scopes. In my opinion Schmidt & Bender makes the absolute best scopes that money can buy. PERIOD. No scope company is more responsive to user needs and the quality of the optics and execution is superb. They are very simply the finest. They are not cheap but the best never is; you get what you pay for. Experience has taught me there are very few exceptions to that rule; even less than most people think.

Larue Tactical mounts have become the mounts of choice in the tactical carbine market – he was the first on the market with a mount for the S&B short dot and after a couple minor tweaks his mount is THE way to go not only on the short dot but on many other combat optics. I use several Larue products and have been very pleased with their performance.

I hope this article helps clarify the development and thought process behind the excellent Schmidt & Bender Short Dot scopes. Enjoy.


© Copyright 2010 Vickers Tactical, Inc of Fayetteville, North Carolina. All rights reserved.
http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/short-dot/
 
Fixed power scopes are never set to the wrong power. A 4x scope is nice and light, compact and rugged. You can easily shoot from close range (I've shot gophers at 25 yards with a fixed 4x Leupold) to over 400 with ease. Anyone that tells you that you can't see an deer-sized animal well enough at 400 yards with a 4x scope to deliver a killing shot from a field position can't shoot. Plain and simple.

You'll never adjust the power of the scope fast enough to shoot something up close, adjust the scope and "quickly" acquire a second target at longer range, unless you're sloth hunting.
 
plus, the old ones just plain look cool

weaverg4.jpg

Weaver G4 on my Savage 342
 
Thank you guys so much again! I really appreciate your comments. I learn a lot.



Fixed power scopes are never set to the wrong power. A 4x scope is nice and light, compact and rugged. You can easily shoot from close range (I've shot gophers at 25 yards with a fixed 4x Leupold) to over 400 with ease. Anyone that tells you that you can't see an deer-sized animal well enough at 400 yards with a 4x scope to deliver a killing shot from a field position can't shoot. Plain and simple.

You'll never adjust the power of the scope fast enough to shoot something up close, adjust the scope and "quickly" acquire a second target at longer range, unless you're sloth hunting.


Ha! I was just checking Leupold fixed mag scopes this morning! :) The Leupold riflescopes series - FX-II 4x33mm sounds good. Could you please share what model is your Leupold? Thanks. :)
 
Here is the rationale for the quality variable-power optic on a carbine.

From Larry Vickers:
...
"I will close this out plugging Schmidt & Bender and Larue Tactical."...

I wonder if Larue mounts available in Canada or it can be ordered directly from them. I didn't check it yet but I heard this name coming up over and over as far as tactical (AR) scope mounts are concerned. Also, S&B scope probably will cost a lot! Again, didn't check it yet. :)
And thank you, Wendell (as always) for a very interesting article! :)
 
The Leupold riflescopes series - FX-II 4x33mm sounds good. Could you please share what model is your Leupold? Thanks. :)

The FX-II 4x33 would be a good one. I have a couple Leupold M8 4x28mm scopes and a M8 4x33mm which are the predecessors to the FX-II line. Also nice scopes to use and can be had in the EE for ~$200 frequently. The 4x28 are handy for mounting low and are a little easier to find than the 4x33.
 
The FX-II 4x33 would be a good one. I have a couple Leupold M8 4x28mm scopes and a M8 4x33mm which are the predecessors to the FX-II line. Also nice scopes to use and can be had in the EE for ~$200 frequently. The 4x28 are handy for mounting low and are a little easier to find than the 4x33.

Thank you for heads up. :) I will check this scope in person first and if I like it I would probably go for it. I wonder (a bit off topic), I checked the specs on their website and couldn't find what round this scope will be good for? I mean if someone shoots a lot of .270 or .308 - how long this scope will survive intensive shooting with those rounds? How about magnum loads? Thanks.
 
I run an FXII 6x36 on my 375 Taylor. The recoil is quite a bit stouter than a 308, and I have yet to have any problems.

I used to run a 3x10.5x40 on it, and I much prefer the fixed-6. It's lighter, no extra moving parts whatsoever, and no fiddling with magnification. And if I can't hit it with a 6x power, I need to get closer.

Although with the quality control these days, I don't think the variable/fixed makes much of a difference. I just prefer the simplicity of the fixed power scopes.
 
Ha! I was just checking Leupold fixed mag scopes this morning! :) The Leupold riflescopes series - FX-II 4x33mm sounds good. Could you please share what model is your Leupold? Thanks. :)

It's an M8 4x with a standard duplex. I believe it's the 33mm objective but couldn't tell you for sure. It lives on the farm, where the gophers roam.
 
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