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Putting my conflict dislaimer right out there to start - I have two PGW rifles and am very happy. Moving on, the PGW stuf has been around for quite some time now - Coyote, Timberwolf and the big fifty -a large defence contract was awarded and of the civillian sales I venture to say that, due to the price point, few were spontaneous purchases made by people new to firearms. The time in the market and knowledgeable nature of the majority of purchasers ought to have brought to light any extant concerns people had about PGW actions and in today's World such concerns would have spread far and wide. Such concerns have not arisen.

There are things I like lots about my PGW's and things that are not my exact personal preference but the action is something I have absolutely nothing to nit-pick about.
 
If there was an issue with their steel it would have come out already in the stringent testing that was done by the Canadian Forces before adopting the Timberwolf. Not only that but it would have also come out via the thousands of (still) satisfied private owners that shoot their product. Getting all worked up going on the words of some misellaneous gunsmith is not very smart. Instead look at all the physical proof in front of you.
 
dirteemax said:
I did not know they were made from stainless. That's intresting to know. Thanks for the info!!!

My custom 50 was the stainless BAT action and I was told to always always lube the lugs to prevent galling. I was told that by the guy who built the rifle and by BAT when I called them directly.

It would be nice to know a little more info about the hardness of the PGW action
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Did you even look at there website under the specs, it clearly states

Receiver material: Stainless Steel Pr. 70 416
 
Longshot said:
If there was an issue with their steel it would have come out already in the stringent testing that was done by the Canadian Forces before adopting the Timberwolf. Not only that but it would have also come out via the thousands of (still) satisfied private owners that shoot their product. Getting all worked up going on the words of some misellaneous gunsmith is not very smart. Instead look at all the physical proof in front of you.
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Nothing against gunsmiths, but the vast majority of them know nothing about engineering or actual metallurgy. They work with and on guns but they don't design them. (taking an existing action and improving it isn't designing)

How many gunsmiths even have a Rockwell hardness tester, or Charpy impact toughness tester? Or polish and stain metal samples to analyze under a microscope or electron microscope. My point is that all gunsmiths do is observe, and their observations are of limited value unless there is a very specific problem identified.

There are many firearms that don't even have a receiver in the conventional sense. SIG, Blazer, Steyer HS50, are a few examples. All of these have the bolt lugs engage into seats cut directly into the back end of the barrel. So the lug seats are the same material and properties of the barrel.

Bottom line, it doesn't really matter what the receiver is made from, provided it functions properly and meets it design specifications, including service life. Nitride treating produces a very hard surface coating which will eliminate any galling, even on dry surfaces.

As for the example of the mechanic, they are exactly the same as the gunsmith, they repair and observe, but don't design. An aluminum engine block is much softer than a cast iron block. Would you automatically eliminate all cars with any aluminum in their engines because it is an "inferior" metal. Note that many aluminum engine blocks these days don't have sleeved cylinders, the pistons run directly again treated aluminum cylinder walls.
 
You are trying to confirm actual facts from second mis-information you 'Heard'..

And you come here to get the real story.... HAHAHAHAHA

If I wanted to know about a product before I dropped $10,000 on it, I would talk to the manufacturer directly.

You came here to stir the pot. You are arguing with everyone.
Wait until Monday and Call PGW, end of story.
Go back to your cave.........
 
Do you know how simple it is to do a rockwell hardness test? That is no sign of a pro.

Anyhow I am gonna step in here against my better judgement because getting sucked into an unfounded bulls**t thrashing of someone or their product on the internet is classless. SO be it. I am that guy.

Have you ever met Ross or Steve??? Have you ever been to their facitlity in Winnipeg?? (actually they don't have a storefront sign... likely you have not) Have you ever handled a PGW action or rifle? Have you talked witht he Canadian Forces to see what they think of their products?
The PGW actions, rifles, Barrels (which are Krieger) stocks, triggers and accessories are the finest of their kind in the world. I would put them well beyond AI, better than Barrett, better than the Macmillan Tac 50 and way better than anything out of Alberta.

I'm here to tell you that PGWDTI makes some of the finest components in the world. SOme of the finiest rifles in the world and are run by two of the finest gentlemen in the indusrty.

If you are worried about their quality, just drink from the CGN koolaid and buy a Stevens 200 or a Savage and see mysticalwhatzit. I'm sure he can make you something that will be as accurate as hell. Just look at the raton scores to see for yourself.
 
dirteemax said:
Would this allow problems such as warping?? Part of accuracy is having everything streight and true, having an action that can warp down the road would not be great for accuracy? That would be why BAT heat treats there actions before machining? what are your thoughs on this?
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I can only speak in general as I have no direct knowledge of the PGW actions (but I am considering their 50 to complement my Steyr ;) )

"Part of accuracy is having everything straight and true"

Yes and no. To achieve accuracy, what you must have is consistency shot to shot.

Going back a step. When you fire a round, all the steel surrounding the chamber expands, the barrel steel stretches outwards, the bolt lugs deflect and the bolt face moves backwards, the force transmitted to the lug seats causes the metal behind the seats to compress, allowing the bolt face to move backwards even further. Now, all this stretching sounds dramatic, and it is, but the distance moved is small (0.005 to 0.015"). Also, it occurs (in a properly designed action) within the elastic range of allowable stress in the steel, meaning there is no permanent deformation, it springs right back. If you deform steel beyond its elastic limit, then it doesn't spring back.

So the strength of the steel doesn't matter, as long as it has been designed to stay within its elastic limit. Now on to accuracy.

You need consistently, which isn't the same thing as being straight and true. The best way of achieving that consistently, is by having all the parts in uniform, full contact with each other. The easiest way of doing that happens to be by making everything straight and true.

As for warping of the action, there is only one part of the action that is of concern, and that is the area of the lug seats. Stress in all other areas of the action are much lower. So basically, if there is no permanent deformation of the lug seats, then no worries about the rest of the action. Deformation of the lug seats would cause headspace to increase. If the bolt is a tight fit between the lugs and bolt body, deformed metal would move in against the bolt and touch it, dragging against the bolt.

If these things are not happening in the action, verified through extensive testing, then there will be no worries about long term performance of the action.

Now going back to accuracy. Heavier actions and larger bolts distribute the forces from firing over a larger area, which reduces the stress in the steel, and hence, the amount it "stretches", which reduces uncontrolled movement, which adds to consistency and improves accuracy.

If PGW rifles are consistently accurate over a long period of time, and over the course of firing thousands of rounds, then I would have to say whatever combination of design and metal properties they used, is good. So the actual hardness of the steel becomes irrelevant, because the overall design works.

:)
 
paperslayer said:
Do you know how simple it is to do a rockwell hardness test? That is no sign of a pro.
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Knowing how to do the test is irrelevant. I know how to do the test and used to do them. A person also has to know how to interpret the results, hardness is only one of many properties to determine the strength of steel. Hard doesn't mean strong.

The sign of a pro is having the equipment..... ;)
 
Yes and no. To achieve accuracy, what you must have is consistency shot to shot.
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That is precision.

Actions are hardened for MANY reasons: SO they dont droop like a wet noodle with a barrel hanging off them. to hold onto the barrel properly and tighly without stripping and to maintain a consistent dimension between sight (scope) and muzzle.

They are also hardened for strength because the chamber is integral with the action. It is just/more imprtant that the bold be of a hardened material
 
paperslayer said:
That is precision.

Actions are hardened for MANY reasons: SO they dont droop like a wet noodle with a barrel hanging off them. to hold onto the barrel properly and tighly without stripping and to maintain a consistent dimension between sight (scope) and muzzle.

They are also hardened for strength because the chamber is integral with the action. It is just/more imprtant that the bold be of a hardened material
Click to expand...

No, hardening is only one method of achieving strength. It depends on how the entire action (action, bolt, barrel) is designed. The Steyr has no action, just a barrel and bolt. Same with
Blaser and SIG.

You could make an action out of paper mache if you designed it properly.
 
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