Red Herring
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Victopia BC
Are the deluxe die sets worth the extra $ for that forth die with the "factory crimp", and does the factory crimp wear out your brass faster?
Delux Die Sets and the factory crimp
- Thread starter Red Herring
- Start date
Are you talking rifle or pistol Lee Factory Crimp dies (FCD)? They both work very differently.
The pistol factory crimp die applys a taper crimp like most auto pistol seating dies do and it also has a carbide ring at the base that sizes the entire case, making sure it will fit in any chamber. Lots of people like them, some people do not, and some who load oversize cast boolits don't use them because they may squeeze the boolit smaller. I bought the 4 die pistol sets, and later a 5th taper crimp only (no carbide ring) die from Lee and use it (taper) a lot of the time as a seperate crimper instead of crimping while seating with seating die, or using the FCD seperate. If it is worth it or not to get the four die or buy a seperate crimp die is hard to say, for some people it is some it is not. You can always buy the die later if you want it. And people have been loading good pistol ammo for 100+ years without a seperate crimp or Factory crimp die.
With the Lee Rifle FCD it is a collet that squeezes the top of the case against the bullet in four spots looking very much the same as most factory rifle ammos crimp. I have Rifle FCD's for some of my common calibres, but don't crimp much rifle ammo except for leaver actions and sometimes for my M14/M1. I would almost never crimp ammo for my bolt actions, whether target or hunting loads.
In any case I don't think normal crimp of any kind is a huge factory in wearing out brass. But if you crimp too much shoot too much or too hot it will likely have a negative effect on brass life. Most people don't wear out pistol brass very fast anyways.
The pistol factory crimp die applys a taper crimp like most auto pistol seating dies do and it also has a carbide ring at the base that sizes the entire case, making sure it will fit in any chamber. Lots of people like them, some people do not, and some who load oversize cast boolits don't use them because they may squeeze the boolit smaller. I bought the 4 die pistol sets, and later a 5th taper crimp only (no carbide ring) die from Lee and use it (taper) a lot of the time as a seperate crimper instead of crimping while seating with seating die, or using the FCD seperate. If it is worth it or not to get the four die or buy a seperate crimp die is hard to say, for some people it is some it is not. You can always buy the die later if you want it. And people have been loading good pistol ammo for 100+ years without a seperate crimp or Factory crimp die.
With the Lee Rifle FCD it is a collet that squeezes the top of the case against the bullet in four spots looking very much the same as most factory rifle ammos crimp. I have Rifle FCD's for some of my common calibres, but don't crimp much rifle ammo except for leaver actions and sometimes for my M14/M1. I would almost never crimp ammo for my bolt actions, whether target or hunting loads.
In any case I don't think normal crimp of any kind is a huge factory in wearing out brass. But if you crimp too much shoot too much or too hot it will likely have a negative effect on brass life. Most people don't wear out pistol brass very fast anyways.
If it's a bullet that I'd crimp then yes they are worth it. If it's for something that doesn't need to be crimped(aka most modern sporting cartridges for bolt guns) then it'll never be used.
For the record every seating die made, as far as I'm aware, has a built in crimp on it when set correctly. Personally I hate setting up the crimp/bullet seating depth on a die so I use the seating die to seat the bullet and the factory crimp die to crimp.
Brass life is not affected as split necks and loose primers are generally what kills a case.
For the record every seating die made, as far as I'm aware, has a built in crimp on it when set correctly. Personally I hate setting up the crimp/bullet seating depth on a die so I use the seating die to seat the bullet and the factory crimp die to crimp.
Brass life is not affected as split necks and loose primers are generally what kills a case.
Red Herring
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Victopia BC
Ah.. I am starting to see (I think). It was the Lee pistol set I was thinking about that comes with either 3 or 4 dies.
Hard to know what one wants when first setting up. I suppose I will go with a regular basic set, and add more if needed down the road as I figure it out, and get the hang of it. I plan to run mostly self cast bullets from my 9mm, and jacketed commercial from the .308.
Am I correct in assuming that if the brass comes from your own gun, resizing is not as important, as it should be a perfect fit?
Hard to know what one wants when first setting up. I suppose I will go with a regular basic set, and add more if needed down the road as I figure it out, and get the hang of it. I plan to run mostly self cast bullets from my 9mm, and jacketed commercial from the .308.
Am I correct in assuming that if the brass comes from your own gun, resizing is not as important, as it should be a perfect fit?
Just partly correct.
Without full length resizing, the shoulder will gradually extend and after maybe four loadings, you will have to resize.
A good plan is to set the sizing die so it just touches the shoulder. That is almost neck sizing, but will kep the shoulder from growing.
I use the lee crimp die separate, for rifle and pistol.
I like the fact that any pistol ammo that goes into the die, will chamber. Garanteed no jam.
On rifle ammo, a good crimp lets the powder create enough presure before releasing the bullet.
I like the fact that any pistol ammo that goes into the die, will chamber. Garanteed no jam.
On rifle ammo, a good crimp lets the powder create enough presure before releasing the bullet.
I'd say yes.I can't think of any other explanation.
They were exactly the same load's but 1/2 were crimped.
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
I've had crimp make a difference in some 44 mag loads. It seems to be powder dependent IMO, but there are other factors. Increase in chamber pressure would be slight, but might have an affect on ignition with some powders, under some conditions. For example the same weight of lead bullet will have less chamber pressure than a typical jacketed bullet of the same weight, and even with the same powder and charge weight, will have different velocity for a variety of reasons. Load a lead bullet without a crimp with a slower pistol powder, and the velocities can be inconsistent. The crimp makes a substantial difference here.
With a jacketed bullet it's not as obvious, and probably non existent over a wide range of cartridges, as neck tension alone is sufficient. My guess is that higher pressure cartridges would rarely if ever see this issue, at full power anyway.
I'm a bit surprised to see it in the 35 Whelan. Wondering if the neck tension is low on the reloads, or the bullet weight is light for the powder being used.
James54765
Member
- Location
- Southern Saskatchewan
I am relatively new to reloading but the lee deluxe four die sets are worth the money in my opinion. I have six sets of them. The factory crimp die is nice to have.
Armored Metal
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- The People's Republik of Kébekistan
I am soooo new to reloading that I have not finished buying my accessories to get started. But I did buy my first die set and I went with the Deluxe set (.45ACP). I figured I could spend a little extra now and have that 4th die if I need it.
