Denouncing ''bubba''

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ratherbefishin

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Its kind of interesting going through these threads-someone asks a question about the feasability of altering /restoring a military rifle-and immediately some sanctimonious ''preacher'' will denounce ''bubba''.

I fully agree there is far more value in leaving military rifles as is-especially for collector purposes-but when you come across a military rifle that ALREADY has been altered,and decide that even if its not a collector-it could be turned in to a very fine''shooter'' ,then why not?You can't unscramble eggs.I like refinishing some of the old wood-comes up beautifully.I look at the very fine ''sporters'' on Tradeex-once miltary rifles and now serving as very fine hunting rifles-and I can see nothing wrong with it.I recently picked up a nice old K11-but it was ALREADY drilled and tapped for a scope[which is the only way I could shoot it anyway] and the stock had been cut and a Packmeyer buttplate installed.I looked at it-wondered about ''sporterizing'' it by cutting the stock-but decided to just refinish the wood and mount a scope-underneath multiple layers of varnish was an absolutely gorgeous walnut stock...

And it wasn't so long ago that the ONLY way an average guy could go hunting was to ''sporterize'' an old 303-and those guys[like me] were introduced to the sport because of it.

Another anonomoly is its quite acceptable to ''restore'' a vintage car, bring it back to its former glory-but try it on a military rifle,or reblue an old sporting rifle -and the purists look down their nose at you....go figure....
 
The most valuable cars are all original "survivors". Car restoration goes like this; car value original $150000, restored $100000, purchase price of rust bucket + cost to restore $150000. You lose money every time. Besides, how do you restore wood? Sanding won't bring it back to it original state, just make it smaller. As for sporterizing for hunting, if you can't carry a full wood 10lb rifle, how you going to get a 150lb deer out of where ever it is you are?
 
The sporterized enfields were a product of the times. The problem people have is when someone takes an original milsurp rifle and ruins it while there are millions of them already sporterized.
 
"you can't unscramble eggs" Ha!

Back when Swede's were $79.95 a pop from Le Barons, I built sporters for my kids, friends, and myself. Best shooters we've ever had to this day.

Might rot in purgatory for my sins.
 
Just remember someone sometime called John Browning a Bubba, what possible use could those new fangled machine guns be.:D
 
It's pretty simple. Most folks start their thread with something like "I have this No4 that was sported and I want to...".

Posting a thread that involves cutting up an original rifle is going to get you flamed.

What's so hard to understand?

"Just remember someone sometime called John Browning a Bubba, what possible use could those new fangled machine guns be."

John Browning was a visionary and a genius. Bubba is a retard with a hacksaw. I'm not seeing the parallel.
 
ratherbefishin said:
I fully agree there is far more value in leaving military rifles as is-especially for collector purposes-but when you come across a military rifle that ALREADY has been altered,and decide that even if its not a collector-it could be turned in to a very fine''shooter'' ,then why not?You can't unscramble eggs.
Click to expand...

Tell that to Louthepou :).
 
Sporterizing an original milsurp today is pretty silly thing to do, but I see nothing wrong with all the old sporters that are already out there - frankly I love a nice lee enfield sporter and consider them an important piece of Canadiana and Canadian shooting and hunting heritage!
 
vviking said:
"you can't unscramble eggs" Ha!

Back when Swede's were $79.95 a pop from Le Barons, I built sporters for my kids, friends, and myself. Best shooters we've ever had to this day.

Might rot in purgatory for my sins.
Click to expand...

It wasn't all that long ago that Swedish Mausers were THE craze. I don't have one anymore, but one 1938 that I had was the most accurate Mauser I have ever come across. A friend of mine built a beautiful varmint rig from his Swedish Mauser and it was used for pest control on his farm. He was no Bubba either, but an excellent shooter and very intelligent man who knew a good thing when he found it.
 
rdelliott said:
Tell that to Louthepou :).
Click to expand...

:D

Mind you, with most of the de-sporterizing projects I undertake, the following criteria are met:

- The rifle I start with has (usually) intact metal; so the rifle has been sporterized, but not modified in any permanent way (e.g. no cut barrel).
- The final product is not "as issued" or "collector-worthy" since it may have been desporterized, but I can't turn the clock backwards; the original forend, nosecap etc are long gone;
- I may cut even, in the end, so it's definitely not about the money! For me, it's about spending free time doing something I like, and in my own humble way, paying tribute to our veterans.

That said, I do understand and accept that, in the 50's, in the 60's, all those cheap SMLE were just a sad memory of the recent War, and that sporterizing these SMLE, making a 300% profit on a gun after just 2 or 3 hours of labor on it made a whole lot of sense, since millions of these guns were just collecting dust and rusting away. It is true that, in a certain way, that in itself is a part of our Canadian heritage. But I don't think the "heritage weight" quite compares. Same goes for the commercial sporters; some commercial sporters made from milsurps are nice guns, even have collector's value; doesn't take away from the fact that guns have been bubba'ed.

I look at this and can't help but perceive the same situation with the SKS rifles currently on the market in Canada. Right now, for many folks, these are guns like any other gun. Fast forward 30 years, and that untouched, unrefurbed, non-frankenpinned Russian gun could very well no longer be "just another gun"...

So Bubba would take a Russian SKS, and drill / tap the receiver to mount a scope and cut the bayo lug because it'll make his gun cooler and more "unique". The non-bubba will have some fun by putting it in a Tapco or ATI plastic dress, and keep the original furniture intact, ready to be put back on at a later time. In my mind, there's a difference... is this difference important in the grand scope of things? I'm not sure, but it's an interesting discussion topic.

Simply random thoughts on a Sunday afternoon... maybe it's late enough for a café-cognac, to go with this philosophical discussion? :)

Lou
 
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Personally, I like Bubba. He makes my guns worth more. ;)


I would add though, if he's the sensitive type, he might want to keep his creations in the gun smithing forum.
 
And while we're comparing to cars, there are old "shells" out there that no matter what you do to restore them, there is too little of the original car to make them worth anything. So we make a rod out of them or customize the life out of them. The purists will turn their noses up and heads away, but you've still got a cool ride. Same with the rifles. Too far gone to be worth a collectors price, but you've still got a cool rifle. Sometimes you just can't bring back the past.

Go to it.
 
louthepou said:
:D



I look at this and can't help but perceive the same situation with the SKS rifles currently on the market in Canada. Right now, for many folks, these are guns like any other gun. Fast forward 30 years, and that untouched, unrefurbed, non-frankenpinned Russian gun could very well no longer be "just another gun"...

So Bubba would take a Russian SKS, and drill / tap the receiver to mount a scope and cut the bayo lug because it'll make his gun cooler and more "unique". The non-bubba will have some fun by putting it in a Tapco or ATI plastic dress, and keep the original furniture intact, ready to be put back on at a later time. In my mind, there's a difference... is this difference important in the grand scope of things? I'm not sure, but it's an interesting discussion topic.
:)

Lou
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I kept my SKS stock but then again I have an AR-15 to dress up all fancy and a done up SKS would pale in comparison. AR's were meant to be modular from the beginning as envisioned by Eugene Stoner, the SKS was not meant to be changed.
 
Denouncing Bubba.

I must add some comments here, at 83 years of age and and a self acknowledged as being "guilty as charged" I must respond.

The best .30-06 rifle, most accurate practical hunting rifle that I was ever lucky enought to own was an already bubbaed Winchester P-17. In the mid 50's I worked that rifle over without any power tools of any kind, filed rear of receiver to a Rem 30 contour, cut down mag by one round, replaced front sight with a Lyman slide on, after cutting and crowning barrel by 1.25" added a Lyman 52 peep, hot reblued all, replaced and fitted a good walnut mid range Bishop stock, working it down to my idea of a comfortable cheek piece and then slowly building up a traditional oil finish, I had a rifle that would consistently shoot from a cold barrel minute of angle shots with any 150-180 grain bullet I loaded. A cast .311334 sized GC checked would shoot 3 shots in 1.5" at 100 yards. This rifle had my hard work of love build into it. When I could afford a scope for it, it was formidable, better than my later acquired Ruger 77 in .30-06.

So, I bought post WW2 Canadian made #4s by the crated of 10 from Globe in Mtl. cut down the fore end stock and sold them to local sports making $15 profit on each sale, buyer and I both happy. Failed to keep one for myself as issued :(

Now we come to my infamous 1913 BSA SMle which had been multibubbaed before I acquired . The lovely peace time walnut stock has bee trimmed, thinned, lightened far too much in all area, the fore stock and hand guard were gone, nothing to hold the forestock in place but I can only surmize as epoxy resin at the ring, the rear sight base left with no ladder, a very low cheap scope base screwed to the front and the rear clip guide, not permitting loading from a 5 round clip, requiring loading from the 10 round detachable mag and a more than useless front sight. Admittedly. with much time, effort, luck and $$$ it could have been restored, but not by me. It was offered for sale with a vintage Burris US made scope at a gun show at a give-away-price and no offers....So, I finished the job, cut down the barrel, crowned, cut off useless rear sight base, reblued the areas needing it.

When a firearm is bubbaed, please judge the time and circuimtances of what was done and the reasons.

So, here it to less bubbaing :agree: from a sinner who pleads mea culpa, with an explanation. V:I:

Forgive me all CGNers and judge me fairly.
 
I can see not hacking up collector guns or guns in original condition, but if someone has modified a gun and you become the new owner why not build a nice gun out of it bubba or not, why let it sit around untouched somewhere because its been modified, we all like our enfields (for example) and some have nice original guns, but on the other hand some like to make a nice sporting gun out of them,no matter which side of the coin we all are into the same type of guns, mabey not the same style no matter what were keeping the older guns out there and still shooting weather it be at deer camp or the range, i think there better off there then sitting around rusting because of a scope or stock change. i'll be honest i like original guns and modified ones i dont see the harm in a little customization, its all self expression.
 
Nothing wrong with modifying a military rifle that has already been modified. It's only original once. These rifles were sold as surplus for very little and numbered in the millions particularly Lee-Enfields in Canada. Looking at it from another point of view if millions hadn't been cut down and sold as sporters the value of original military trim specimen would be nowhere near what it is today.
 
When I was a kid-I got my first rifle -a 303,for $8.95-Sears catalogue-and the fall catalogue had a section on guns and ammunition.....I spent many happy hours ''sporterizing'' that old enfield-and many more hours hunting with it with my dad.''Herters''catalogue was read over until it fell apart[they had the ''best'' equipment available anywhere....]I probably wasn't diferent than many more kids-and that was the era of the greatest number of hunting licences sold-GOS seasons province wide on moose, no LEH,and GOS antlerless seasons......Today you can;t buy guns in catalogues,we have LEH, antler restrictions,hunting is politically incorrect and hunting licences have declined by two thirds....and heaven help the guy who ''sporterizes'' a milsurp....we turn on our own kind...

ps-and I venture a heck of a lot of deer and moose fell to iron sighted ''bubba'd 303's than the latest ''whiz bang gotta have one'' short mags with $1000 glass on top....and I'll; put my swede ''sporter'' with its 100 year old 6.5x55 cartridge and an old fixed 4x Leupold up against most of them.Cause no matter WHAT you're carrying,bubba'd or not,-ya still gotta hold it straight...
 
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