Design purpose of full-wood stock

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Hi folks,

I've been getting interest recently on bolt milsurp rifles. It would seem that most of them share share full wood stock enclosing the barrel. The sporterizing of such rifles generally include removal of much of the wood. I'd be interested to know what was the purpose of such full-wood pieces in the original military configuration, and why the "sporter" version have such reduced wood left.

I can think of some reason, but they do not make much sense. Full-wood might protect the barrel from field action, but as would be needed in "sporter" configuration. In term of stance, especially the position of the supporting arm, it does not make sense to have the hand far from the action (stability wise). Full-wood might avoid burning ones hands in case of barrel overheating due to repeated firing, acting as a barrel shroud . Sporter might want less weight, but as does the military.

Any hints is appreciated...
 
Two main reasons,Accuracy due to the barrel being supported and as a heat shield.Ever shoot 50 rounds and then put some bare skin on a barrel?
 
Keep in mind that rifle fencing was practiced for a very looong time (and it still is I imagine).

In the heat of the battle one really appreciates rifle that's just as strong or stronger than one fielded by your opponent.

Also old habits die hard-look up how rifles developed over time.Wood replaced long heavy muzzle loading barrels.

Long infantry rifles are gone since 1WW,bolt action battle rifles are gone since Vietnam,bayonets are still around ( I wonder for how much longer).
 
Put just 20 rounds through a rifle in rapid fire and you'll see why the wood. Learned that first time I ran a couple mags through a sporterised Enfield.
Actually had to pour coffee on a couple of old FAL's after running through 3 or 4 full mags as fast as we could empty them. Forearms started smoking rather seriously.
 
Also reduces heat distortion between sights. The heat haze is tough to sight through.
Sporters are not designed to fire more than a few rounds at a time so not a lot of heat. Also most sporters are shot a about 200 yards. A long shot would be considered to be 4 to 450 yards. The thinking at the turn of the last century was that a man should be able to hit a target at well over these distances so that is where proper support, ie, bedding comes in.
 
Going BACK to the "old" hand to hand bayonet drills. The left hand was holding the forstock halfway between the the reciever and front sight,right was firmly wrapped around the pistol grip and was slightly behind rib cage . This gave the position of maximum power. After emptying several clips into the enemy, the barrel would be VERY warm. The Full wood stock allowed us to grab the forstock as far forward as comfortable and prevented the other guy from being able to deflect the thust to the side. You only got one try, so ya drive the blade in till its stopped by the front sight.

Ken
 
See where their left hands are?

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Back when Free Canadians could actually DO things like this, I was at a rifle match where one of the teams fielded an RPK with a pair of 75-round drums and a pack-full of 30-rounders. It was a pin course, bowling pins on barrels and you had to knock the pins OFF the barrel to score. If a pin fell down, you had to scoop it over the LIP to get it to the ground: nasty target. Times shoot, of course, fastest time to clear the range wins.

THEY SET IT ON FIRE.

Shooting a Mauser 98k with PK (Greek) ammo, you lose your sight picture after 35 rounds rapid because of the smoke from the Oil in the stock BURNING ON THE BARREL. By this time, the Bolt is seizing in the action because of the heat; it is very difficult to smack open and the Bolt Handle is very hot.

With the SMLE after 60 rounds, you will get an INSTANT Second-degree burn from touching the Sight Adjustment Button. Lay your hand on the Sight Base for 3 seconds and it's a THIRD-degree burn. The Bolt Handle by this time is noticeably hot, the Charger Guide is HOT, Receiver ring will give you an INSTANT burn.

I have done this personally with both the Kar 98k and the SMLE.

At the Second Battle of Ypres in the St.-Julien sector, the men of A Company, 8th Battalion, CEF fired their Mark III ROSS Rifles until they could not be loaded any more because the Bolt Handles were TOO HOT TO TOUCH. They opened the actions, allowed their rifles to cool while using a pickup rifle until IT WAS TOO HOT TO RELOAD, then going back to their original rifles. That single Company of men held off three advancing German DIVISIONS and changed the entire course of the War.

And now, 98 years later, people are still saying that the Ross "couldn't take it".

Yup: there are reasons for all that wood. The punishment that ANY rifle of the Great War took in a normal WEEK would destroy any sporting rifle.
 
IF they get rid of the bayonet (there's been talk of it for years) it will be seen as a mistake and then brought back eventually. You will ALWAYS need a backup plan. In an in close fight, I'd rather use a blade attatched to the end of a rifle than one in my hand. Standoff distance is a big life saver. It also has a huge psychological impact, both good for the user and detrimental to the foe facing it.
 
Plus it's really handy for opening ration packs, cutting paracord, and whittling twigs into smaller twigs. All essential army life functions, I assure you.

As far as the wood goes... it protects the barrel from damage, and people from heat. Simple, really.
 
Up until the late eighties, most military rifles didn't have top wood. Even then, they minimalized it to just cover the chamber area.

Even the old single shot muzzle loaders and single shot cartridge loaders weren't immune to the effects of heat devloped during sustained fire practise and conditions.

Heat, wasn't the only concern. In colder climates, extreme cold was just as big an issue. Bare skin and extremely cold steel, have a bad habit of sticking together when the skin is a bit damp after coming out of a warm mitten or glove.

The wood was there for the convenience of the soldier and to make him/her more effective in stressfull conditions. To many it seems excessive and superfluous. Just try a few drills like smellie describes and you will soon find out why the wood was so important.

The Brens, when they got hot, would often burn off or char the wood carrying handles.

One other thing full wood coverage is good for is to round out the sharp edges of the firearm. This serves two functions. It blends into the surrounding area and makes the rifle easier to carry.
 
There were 2 real reasons battle rifles come with full wood: by that I mean barrels covered with wood (or plastic) handguards.

1-barrel heat: fire 20-30 rounds as fast as you can out of a Lee-Enfield or Mosin Nagant and you'll see how hot that barrel gets very quickly. Hell, do that out of almost ANY rifle and see how hot the barrel gets

2-bayonet fighting-most all battle rifles (and assault rifles) have bayonet lugs or attached bayonets for close-up and personal fighting when you just don't have time to change or recharge magazines. IIRC the last time bayonets were fixed and used in combat was sometime during the Iraq war - British forces used bayonets in a charge on Mahdi militia positions after the Mahdi attacked a British vehicle convoy. When fighting with bayonets, the wood (or plastic) handguards protect the barrel when the soldier is bayonet fighting.

Hunting or sporter rifles don't NEED the handguards for either heat or barrel protection, so it's not surprising that extra pound of (unnecessary) wood is removed.
 
Reference full wood plus bayonet, there is NOTHING more purely BRUTAL in appearance than an SMLE with the Pattern 1907 fixed.

The PERFECT weapon for crowd control because NOBODY in their right mind wants to face it.

So they all run away and nobody gets hurt.

And the Troopies can go back to the barracks and clean the SMLEs.

I think every base should maintain a supply of SMLEs and Pattern 1907s precisely for this purpose.

Not EVERYTHING modern is the best for all purposes.
 
Long ago I read that full wood was there so that when the saber from the enemy trooper on the horse swung down at you it would stick into the wood and stop instead of glancing off the wood and continuing outo your flesh. Sometimes things that were done for a reason continue even after that reason is gone. Why did they teach one hand shooting of handguns for so long? In the army it was taught that way because the other hand was holding the reins of the horse ( or so says Rob Leatham ).
Who knows, but the answer " because it has always been done that way" is not a vaid reason.
 
Single hand pistol shooting was about learning trigger control. Once someone master that, they master the pistol and can shoot it well any which way they wish to. Someone who only shoots two handed still has the training wheels on.
 
Skylark 4 said:
Yup Enuff to make ANYBODY have second thoughts about being there.

Ken
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Intimidating but neither a good saw nor a good bayonet. If your enemy isn't easily intimidated all you're going to do is make him very angry.

According to Wikipedia, only the Germans persisted with them after about 1900.

Says they withdrew them in 1917; or ground the teeth off off.

They found it was bad for their image, and our side didn't appreciate their use at all: made a nasty wound.

Use one of those and then try to surrender and you're likely to get shot.
 
FNC1 said:
Long ago I read that full wood was there so that when the saber from the enemy trooper on the horse swung down at you it would stick into the wood and stop instead of glancing off the wood and continuing outo your flesh. Sometimes things that were done for a reason continue even after that reason is gone. Why did they teach one hand shooting of handguns for so long? In the army it was taught that way because the other hand was holding the reins of the horse ( or so says Rob Leatham ).
Who knows, but the answer " because it has always been done that way" is not a vaid reason.
Click to expand...

a fine example of this is cholera belts. once upon a time it was thought that cholera was best prevented by keeping ones abdomen warm. most armies issued flannel "belts" to be worn under uniforms for this purpose until quite a long time after we figured out that it had no effect on preventing or treating cholera. the most recent version i have seen was a german one made in the 1970s sold as surplus recently.
 
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