Ok, I am still a novice loader as far as I'm concerned.... So that out of the way, my question is... Could I use a 125 grain recipe for a 123 bullet (surplus pulled russian stuff). I was thinking Id go a grain or 2 below the min and work up from there. Bad idea? thanks all....
deviation from the recipe?
- Thread starter wd113
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358Rooster
CGN Regular
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- Central Saskatchewan
Many printed loading manuals routinely list data for rifle bullets spanning a 5 grain range (ex: 150 & 155 gr bullets). Not positive about pistol cartridges, though. But I still can't imagine there would be any real effect whatsoever.
Now, if you're running ragged-edge loads, it might make a difference. But then again, so will differing bullet construction of identical weight, in this scenario.
Apply good sense, good practices, and record any anomalies worthy of reevaluation (ie: use your brain & you'll be fine
)
Rooster
Now, if you're running ragged-edge loads, it might make a difference. But then again, so will differing bullet construction of identical weight, in this scenario.
Apply good sense, good practices, and record any anomalies worthy of reevaluation (ie: use your brain & you'll be fine
)Rooster
The bullets may not be of similar construction, which is bad. When you say Russian I think of steel core bullets, very different from lead.
Saw one of each bullet in half and see what you've got. If in doubt, it's not worth it. If there's any magnetic material in the bullets, I'd toss them. Many ranges don't allow steel core bullets anyway.
Be careful.
Saw one of each bullet in half and see what you've got. If in doubt, it's not worth it. If there's any magnetic material in the bullets, I'd toss them. Many ranges don't allow steel core bullets anyway.
Be careful.
358Rooster
CGN Regular
- Location
- Central Saskatchewan
Curious, Chilly807, what differences have you noticed between lead and steel core in terms of load behavior or loading technique / special requirements? I've never loaded steel core bullets, so I really have no concept of what the differences could be - at least from an internal ballistics perspective.
In my mind, as long as the OP applies standard load development techniques, he should be safe, regardless of construction. External performance being another matter altogether....
Thanks
Rooster
In my mind, as long as the OP applies standard load development techniques, he should be safe, regardless of construction. External performance being another matter altogether....
Thanks
Rooster
There is a difference in the pressure generated between identical loads in lead vs solid bullets (TSX, GMX etc...), but to answer the OP's question... you can use the same powder charge for bullets carrying by 2-5 grains, without concern... However, do NOT drop below the minimum charge weight as you suggested you would to compensate... I would be more concerned about combustion space than over-charging.
My understanding of different construction leading to different load data comes from loading manuals having separate sections for solid bullets, like copper vs. copper jacket with lead core.
I don't load solid bullets, so I haven't compared powder charge weights for dissimilar bullets with the same weight, I just noticed there was separate data for them.
Without getting into heavy research for someone else's sake, I'm thinking it might have something to do with the harder metal (solid copper or possibly steel core) being harder to deform as the rifling grips the copper jacket on the bullet. If that's the case, I would expect to see higher pressures when loading with solid or steel cored bullets and the same powder charge.
They obviously work and are safe in a wide variety of rifles. The question in my mind is, what is a safe starting load to use? How much reduction is enough?
10% reduction in charge weight is the rule of thumb I've often seen applied for starting loads, but that's with a specified bullet, not with an unknown factor.
I'm naturally cautious, and I try to keep unknown variables to a minimum in my loading process.
I'd like to hear from someone that's experimented with this, to me it's interesting stuff.
I don't load solid bullets, so I haven't compared powder charge weights for dissimilar bullets with the same weight, I just noticed there was separate data for them.
Without getting into heavy research for someone else's sake, I'm thinking it might have something to do with the harder metal (solid copper or possibly steel core) being harder to deform as the rifling grips the copper jacket on the bullet. If that's the case, I would expect to see higher pressures when loading with solid or steel cored bullets and the same powder charge.
They obviously work and are safe in a wide variety of rifles. The question in my mind is, what is a safe starting load to use? How much reduction is enough?
10% reduction in charge weight is the rule of thumb I've often seen applied for starting loads, but that's with a specified bullet, not with an unknown factor.
I'm naturally cautious, and I try to keep unknown variables to a minimum in my loading process.
I'd like to hear from someone that's experimented with this, to me it's interesting stuff.
358Rooster
CGN Regular
- Location
- Central Saskatchewan
Very much agree, Chilly & Hoyt. Thanks. I am experienced with the characteristic differences exhibited by solids vs conventional copper jacketed lead, but I am not with regard to steel core.
Definitely interesting. Suddenly feel a slight desire to scrounge up some steel core... Slight...
Definitely interesting. Suddenly feel a slight desire to scrounge up some steel core... Slight...
Cameron SS
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ground Zero
Bullet weight is only one factor that affects relative chamber pressure in relation to a constant amount of powder and case volume.
IF the bearing surfaces of the bullets differ significantly, then you could have a situation where a longer BSL means greater friction in the chamber/rifling, and could generate significantly higher chamber pressures.
Anything else that affects friction or resistance of the bullet in the chamber/rifling could affect pressure. IE even with identical bullet weights, an undersized case lead bullet will generate different pressure than a copper jacket. Lubbed bullets on the hand reduce friction.
If the BSL, bullet geometry and jacket construction are all the same, I wouldn't worry about 2 or 3 grains of bullet weight.
But otherwise, you can definitely start with a known load for a comparable round, back off a little bit as you suggest, and work back up.
While a recipe for a bullet that is close may be safe to shoot, there is no guarantee that this close enough load would produce good accuracy. No matter what some tweaking is likely to be necessary.
IF the bearing surfaces of the bullets differ significantly, then you could have a situation where a longer BSL means greater friction in the chamber/rifling, and could generate significantly higher chamber pressures.
Anything else that affects friction or resistance of the bullet in the chamber/rifling could affect pressure. IE even with identical bullet weights, an undersized case lead bullet will generate different pressure than a copper jacket. Lubbed bullets on the hand reduce friction.
If the BSL, bullet geometry and jacket construction are all the same, I wouldn't worry about 2 or 3 grains of bullet weight.
But otherwise, you can definitely start with a known load for a comparable round, back off a little bit as you suggest, and work back up.
While a recipe for a bullet that is close may be safe to shoot, there is no guarantee that this close enough load would produce good accuracy. No matter what some tweaking is likely to be necessary.
Personally id have use the start load for the next heavier bullet and then work up if there was over 20gr in weigt difference. With same bullet diameter any construction. Lead up to steal core or solid copper
But really id use 125 or 123gr data for a 125 or 123gr bullet and start at min load and work up and not worry about it. Again if its a 310-313" barrel. If it was 308 barrel id still use them but id use a powder like imr 3031 or h4895 and start a touch lower then min and work up.
And if you can see the psi for the load you can see if its at saami max or lower. Often i see max loads still 10,000 psi below saami max
There are tonnes of powder that dont mind being reduced below min at all. That often makes them good for cast bullets or jacketed bullets. They are the types i try to keep on hand. Very versatile
But really id use 125 or 123gr data for a 125 or 123gr bullet and start at min load and work up and not worry about it. Again if its a 310-313" barrel. If it was 308 barrel id still use them but id use a powder like imr 3031 or h4895 and start a touch lower then min and work up.
And if you can see the psi for the load you can see if its at saami max or lower. Often i see max loads still 10,000 psi below saami max
There are tonnes of powder that dont mind being reduced below min at all. That often makes them good for cast bullets or jacketed bullets. They are the types i try to keep on hand. Very versatile
