6 + 1 .375 H&H. That's a lot of firepower in that mag box.
DG with a single shot
- Thread starter cam1936
- Start date
6 + 1 .375 H&H. That's a lot of firepower in that mag box.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
The single shot worked for Selous, but then he didn't have any other options.
I'm sure to get flamed about something in this ( probably because I'm riding along and not driving, at least on this ) but the Ruger No. 1 discussion reminds me of this clip. (Hope this works, new at this sorta thing)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJJpPGHTg94
The look on his face is classic!
So if the whole movie is bogus; say so & just enjoy the clip for what it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJJpPGHTg94
The look on his face is classic!
So if the whole movie is bogus; say so & just enjoy the clip for what it is.
but he didnt have internet ...
The Craig Boddington Collection would suggest that more than one experienced person believes that Ruger No.1's are a legitimate choice... note the names... these are peddled more to yuppy collectors than serious hunters, but serious hunters have used them in the field for their namesake game.
RUGER CRAIG BODDINGTON COLLECTION
THIS IS A FIVE RIFLE SET OF NEVER BEFORE MADE RUGER #1 RIFLES IN FAMOUS AFRICAN CALIBERS;
RUGER #1'S RIFLE IN;
- .375 RUGER - THE LION
- 7x57mm THE LEOPARD
- .300 H&H MAG - THE KUDU
- .450 NITRO EXPRESS - THE ELEPHANT
- .450/400 NITRO EXPRESS - THE BUFFALO
RUGER CRAIG BODDINGTON COLLECTION
THIS IS A FIVE RIFLE SET OF NEVER BEFORE MADE RUGER #1 RIFLES IN FAMOUS AFRICAN CALIBERS;
RUGER #1'S RIFLE IN;
- .375 RUGER - THE LION
- 7x57mm THE LEOPARD
- .300 H&H MAG - THE KUDU
- .450 NITRO EXPRESS - THE ELEPHANT
- .450/400 NITRO EXPRESS - THE BUFFALO
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Boddington's wife and daughter are both recoil-unenthusiastic. Brittany, the daughter, used a 405 Winchester in a #1 on Buffalo and Donna, the wife, used a 450-400. Worked just fine. That said, if I could have not only Craig Boddington but Andrew Dawson or Paul Smith (co-owners of Chifuti Safaris) standing at either shoulder, I probably would feel just fine about it too! Paul shoots a K-gun in 470 NE (not 100% sure, could be a 500) and Andrew shoots a very well pedigreed Williams Evans 470 NE (I can't for the life of me remember who the previous owner was but he was a well known PH of yore). And Craig, well, love him or hate him the boy has a pretty decent collection of rifles including a custom Winchester 416 Taylor and some very nice doubles. I'd probably make all kinds of rash choices with that battery on my flanks.
I always tread lightly when mentioning Boddington... not sure exactly why he attracts such vehement detractors... maybe simply jealousy? At any rate, as a No.1 fan, I can appreciate the collection... the one glaring flaw for me is the .375 Ruger, rather than the H&H.
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
anyone going hunting dangerous game should have a bolt gun or a double rifle. these are big tough animals i watched a video Steve lee put up of a water buffalo hunt(feral game in Australia) i can't remember the round count but it was over 3 from what i think was a .375 H&H but from what i hear the guys culling them over there have different rules but a lot of that is done off of a vehicle where a single shot gun could be used
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
I think it's pure jealousy, similar to what happens when you bring up Shockey.
You smell that? Envy, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of envy in the morning.
- Location
- Center of Oil Country
Bolt gun as a minimum in a caliber you can shoot and are not afraid of. Agree with previous comments on Ruger's single shots - good calibers marketed to those who may not actually make it to Africa The PH will back you up as that is his job, my favorite South African PH packed a Merkel 470 Nitro double on a buffalo and lioness hunt I did with him. You just don't realize how tough even some of the non dangerous African critters are - it's an experience you have to be there to understand - Gemsbuck and Blue Wildebeest in particular. No desire to walk through the bush with a single shot on dangerous game - there are better choices.
Speak of the devil.
I just worked a deal on the .450 NE 3 1/4" "Elephant" on consingment at Prophet. Never read one of Boddington's books and as such have no opinion on the man. Bought the rifle because I've always wanted to shoot and reload for a NE and I much prefer the solid V sight that came with the Boddington set to the standard Ruger flip sight. I'm undecided on the matte bluing.
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BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
I gave some thought to rechambering my #1H 458 WM to 450 NE a few years back. I think the 450 reamer might just clean up the WM chamber, maybe a small set-back needed.
i dont think jealousy is the only reason ...
i exchanged a lot with Craig and seems a nice man with good advices and strong believes.
now on Jim if only he was doing and saying about ar15 in Canada what he has in US he will on our side, for the rest he is a successful businessman and evertyhting is good on that ... except maybe the SCI side but you have to share some stories to know the truth lol ...
Phil.
If you like that 450, and shoot it well then it would do fine as a buffalo gun. It's the first shot that counts the most. 450NE has been getting it done for more than a century and is the round that all others are compared to.
Are there "better" choices?-absolutely. Will it get the job done if you do your part?-absolutely!
Personally I would ignore the people that have "read" or "heard" how tough a buffalo is and pay attention to the ones that answered based on their buffalo hunting experience.
In My experience African game is no tougher than ours- put a hole thru the heart/lungs and the aforementioned critter will soon expire. Shoot it behind the diaphragm and you will be looking for days whether it is a buffalo or a moose. Difference being of course the buffalo may be a little more displeased to see you the second time......
Are there "better" choices?-absolutely. Will it get the job done if you do your part?-absolutely!
Personally I would ignore the people that have "read" or "heard" how tough a buffalo is and pay attention to the ones that answered based on their buffalo hunting experience.
In My experience African game is no tougher than ours- put a hole thru the heart/lungs and the aforementioned critter will soon expire. Shoot it behind the diaphragm and you will be looking for days whether it is a buffalo or a moose. Difference being of course the buffalo may be a little more displeased to see you the second time......
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Your PH, who is taking your (or the outfitter's) money to conduct the hunt, has as his #1 priority...your safety. He may not come out and tell you that you can't use a single-shot, but you can rest assured that it will probably figure in to his decision-making process when it comes time for him to either let you "sort things out" yourself, or to jump in and start shooting his back-up gun. He wants you to get your game, and he doesn't want to help you shoot it, but more than anything else he doesn't want a dead or injured client on his hands...very bad for business!
At the beginning of the hunt, when you check the sights on your gun...which is a thinly-veiled excuse for the PH to check you on your gun-handling and marksmanship...it might behoove you to put 2 or 3 quick shots into the target, displaying your finely-honed fast-reload skills to their best advantage. Maybe...maybe...it will result in him standing beside you with his rifle at port arms while you engage your buffalo, rather than standing with his gun shouldered, sights aligned, safety off and finger on the trigger before he tells you to shoot.
At the beginning of the hunt, when you check the sights on your gun...which is a thinly-veiled excuse for the PH to check you on your gun-handling and marksmanship...it might behoove you to put 2 or 3 quick shots into the target, displaying your finely-honed fast-reload skills to their best advantage. Maybe...maybe...it will result in him standing beside you with his rifle at port arms while you engage your buffalo, rather than standing with his gun shouldered, sights aligned, safety off and finger on the trigger before he tells you to shoot.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
The only hitch is that a poorly shot moose usually doesn't try to murder you even when shot well.
Agreed, That's why I mentioned that the buffalo may be displeased ....
I don't think that anyone can argue that a 450ne isn't up to the task, or that the first shot is usually the best shot. I was just pointing out If cam1936 is comfortable with his new #1 then it will certainly get the job done.
Would I use one? NO- but I have a plethora of choices that I like better in the safe.
Would a PH tell him it was completely unsuitable ?- NO (none that I have ever met or read anyways)
Would I personally stand beside him while he shot a buffalo with a single shot? Sure-no problem at all. With or without a gun in my hands as long as a competent ph is around. Vastly prefer to have a gun in my paws though...
Does he have to run out and buy a double or a six shot mauser to go on a buff hunt? Most assuredly NO.
How many buffalo have been shot with a pointy stick and string? How many have been shot with a farquharson? I bet Selous shot more with his that will ever be shot by all the members of this forum combined... and he didn't have a ph looking over his shoulder.
Are buffalo near as scary as they are made out to be? In 99% of cases not really... Is he going to run into the 1 in 100? Who knows? thats what makes it fun
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Dangerous game is called that for a reason: because these animals have the potential to become extremely dangerous if hunted, and especially if wounded or otherwise provoked. It isn't enough to simply kill them. Like most animals, they can survive for multiple seconds or minutes after receiving a mortal blow from a bullet. Buffalo especially are credited with enormous vitality and cling to life for unbelievable periods of time after they have been "killed". A lot can happen...to you!...during that time.
If you want to rely on the PH beside you to clean up the mess, fine...shoot whatever you want. He'll see to it that the buff is effectively "stopped"...not just eventually killed, but stopped right then and there, before any undesired stomping takes place. If you like that idea, go ahead and use your single shot rifle...or your bow, spear or whatever other novelty hunting weapon strikes your fancy. Similarly, if you have tons of DG experience and you are now seeking your umpteenth buffalo, and are willing to pass up multiple shot presentations that would be fully acceptable for an adequate gun but are not quite perfect enough for your plaything-de-jour, then by all means have at it...but prepare for disappointment, either from not getting your game, or from again needing to rely on the PH.
Personally, the idea of trusting the PH to keep me out of trouble is anathema to me. These guys who arrange up front to have the PH shoot simultaneously with them on DG make me laugh. Why bother going at all? Just send in the order for a buffalo of specified size and configuration and then have it shot, dipped and shipped to you at home...no messy handling of firearms or any requirement to expose oneself to any risk, or to the messy vagaries of nature. If you want a buff on your wall, take the responsibility...the full responsibility...for killing it yourself, and for protecting yourself and innocent bystanders.
Last but not least: let's say that your buff turns and runs after the shot, as most will do. Let's make it easy, and assume that he is the most cowardly buffalo ever born, and has no intention of ever pointing himself in your direction, no matter how brazenly you stumble up to him...i.e. you are in no danger. There is still the ever-present possibility of losing him, either due to losing the track, or to the proximity of some arbitrary legal boundary that you cannot cross. This isn't an Ontario whitetail, who bounds a few yards across the fence onto the neighbour's land...this is a buffalo (or elephant, or...?) that is now in another concession, or another property, or even another country. Sorry...you are now SOL. The PH will not and cannot continue the pursuit of that animal...and your hunt is now done...and the trophy fee is payable in full. There's a memory you want to carry with you forever. This isn't far-fetched. I personally know a hunter who lost the one and only buff of his life after its track disappeared in the melee of disrupted soil created when the entire herd ran. Craig Boddington wrote in his first African book about losing his first buff after failing to take a follow-up shot...he regretted it literally ever since. My one measly buff was shot a few hundred yards from the Chobe river...the PH took pains to explain that if the animal crossed that river, we would stand where we were (the Caprivi Strip in Namibia) and wave goodbye as he expired in the Chobe National Park in Botswana. This stuff happens all the time.
I don't care how much you practice reloading your singleshot or how fast you get...you will never be as fast as you would be with a bolt gun on which you spent an equal amount of practice time. Comparing the speed of a practiced singleshot user with that of an inept bolt gun shooter is apples and oranges. The whole idea of using a singleshot is that it makes you a careful shooter who doesn't need a second shot. The whole idea of buffalo hunting is to keep shooting as long as they're still kicking...and then to shoot one more after they stop, just in case.
If you want to rely on the PH beside you to clean up the mess, fine...shoot whatever you want. He'll see to it that the buff is effectively "stopped"...not just eventually killed, but stopped right then and there, before any undesired stomping takes place. If you like that idea, go ahead and use your single shot rifle...or your bow, spear or whatever other novelty hunting weapon strikes your fancy. Similarly, if you have tons of DG experience and you are now seeking your umpteenth buffalo, and are willing to pass up multiple shot presentations that would be fully acceptable for an adequate gun but are not quite perfect enough for your plaything-de-jour, then by all means have at it...but prepare for disappointment, either from not getting your game, or from again needing to rely on the PH.
Personally, the idea of trusting the PH to keep me out of trouble is anathema to me. These guys who arrange up front to have the PH shoot simultaneously with them on DG make me laugh. Why bother going at all? Just send in the order for a buffalo of specified size and configuration and then have it shot, dipped and shipped to you at home...no messy handling of firearms or any requirement to expose oneself to any risk, or to the messy vagaries of nature. If you want a buff on your wall, take the responsibility...the full responsibility...for killing it yourself, and for protecting yourself and innocent bystanders.
Last but not least: let's say that your buff turns and runs after the shot, as most will do. Let's make it easy, and assume that he is the most cowardly buffalo ever born, and has no intention of ever pointing himself in your direction, no matter how brazenly you stumble up to him...i.e. you are in no danger. There is still the ever-present possibility of losing him, either due to losing the track, or to the proximity of some arbitrary legal boundary that you cannot cross. This isn't an Ontario whitetail, who bounds a few yards across the fence onto the neighbour's land...this is a buffalo (or elephant, or...?) that is now in another concession, or another property, or even another country. Sorry...you are now SOL. The PH will not and cannot continue the pursuit of that animal...and your hunt is now done...and the trophy fee is payable in full. There's a memory you want to carry with you forever. This isn't far-fetched. I personally know a hunter who lost the one and only buff of his life after its track disappeared in the melee of disrupted soil created when the entire herd ran. Craig Boddington wrote in his first African book about losing his first buff after failing to take a follow-up shot...he regretted it literally ever since. My one measly buff was shot a few hundred yards from the Chobe river...the PH took pains to explain that if the animal crossed that river, we would stand where we were (the Caprivi Strip in Namibia) and wave goodbye as he expired in the Chobe National Park in Botswana. This stuff happens all the time.
I don't care how much you practice reloading your singleshot or how fast you get...you will never be as fast as you would be with a bolt gun on which you spent an equal amount of practice time. Comparing the speed of a practiced singleshot user with that of an inept bolt gun shooter is apples and oranges. The whole idea of using a singleshot is that it makes you a careful shooter who doesn't need a second shot. The whole idea of buffalo hunting is to keep shooting as long as they're still kicking...and then to shoot one more after they stop, just in case.
So a single shot is no good?
How about a double? that is only 2 shots- no good compared to my pre-64 winchester that only holds 3 down and one in the pipe...
My winchester I guess is no good because it won't hold 6 down like a cz....
I do have a belt fed 1919- but it is only .308 would that be best? I suspect it would be problematic at the border though....
What is the proper # of shots to have on hand when hunting buffalo?
Anyone who thinks that a single shot 450NE is not a viable buffalo gun doesn't have to take one.... But to say it won't work is lunacy.
How about a double? that is only 2 shots- no good compared to my pre-64 winchester that only holds 3 down and one in the pipe...
My winchester I guess is no good because it won't hold 6 down like a cz....
I do have a belt fed 1919- but it is only .308 would that be best? I suspect it would be problematic at the border though....
What is the proper # of shots to have on hand when hunting buffalo?
Anyone who thinks that a single shot 450NE is not a viable buffalo gun doesn't have to take one.... But to say it won't work is lunacy.
Two available shots are preferable to one. Is this even debatable?
Is a single "viable"? Of course. Who has said that it won't work?
Is it a handicap? Of course. Who could deny that one shot won't always do the job? And who could deny that this becomes more critical when hunting DG as opposed to more placid critters?
Pardon the lunacy...wherever it is.
Is a single "viable"? Of course. Who has said that it won't work?
Is it a handicap? Of course. Who could deny that one shot won't always do the job? And who could deny that this becomes more critical when hunting DG as opposed to more placid critters?
Pardon the lunacy...wherever it is.
