DG with a single shot

Maybe you read a different thread than me?


antiqueguy- "anyone going hunting dangerous game should have a bolt gun or a double rifle."
Duggahunter-"Bolt gun as a minimum in a caliber you can shoot and are not afraid of"
c-fbmi-"It is incumbent upon you to show up with the correct type of equipment and the ability to use it quite well. This means a double or bolt gun holding preferably no less than 4 rounds and 6 is better."

No doubt two shots is better than one- All I'm saying is that to cam1936 who said- "I really like Ruger No. 1s. A buff hunt is a ways off for me and I was planning on taking a bolt for my first anyways, however I have wondered what experienced people thought of using a No. 1 on DG."

That he certainly has a viable option for buffalo hunting with his newly acquired #1 in 450NE.

Any rational person can see it carries a bit more risk (in Theory)both to your ass and your wallet but it is dangerous game hunting -if you don't want any risk stay on the couch....what are you doing buffalo hunting in the first place?


if botswana and kenya opened back up tomorrow with a new rule that all hunting had to be done with a singleshot I would be on a plane with a shiny new #1. Would you stay home?
 
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Okay, you win. It's a fine idea "in Theory". I even have an old H&R Buffalo Classic .45-70, you can have it cheap. Re-chamber it to .450NE and in theory you can use it on your next trip to Africa. Why else do they call it a Buffalo Classic? There must be a theory behind that name.

Thanks for explaining that you're correct, and that everyone else is wrong. I remain unconvinced, but it's an interesting theory. :)
 
I'm not going to hunt anything with a single shot...The poor guy has a brand new 450NE that i'm sure he is very proud of and everybody just poo-poo'd at as totally unsuitable. It would work- and if he does his part it would work very well.

Is it incorrect to say that many buffalo have been killed with a single shot?

Once again I'm not saying its the best choice, or the second best - only that it is a choice.

Guys hunt buffalo every year with a bow and with muzzleloaders - yet somehow on here a 450NE won't work?
 
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And just when I thought the "double rifle vs. bolt action" debate for dangerous game was as good as it gets... :)

Personally, I wouldn't pass on a chance at a DG animal if all I had was an appropriately chambered single shot -- but it would be far from my first choice.

Hmm... No. Let me re-phrase that ... I wouldn't pass on a chance at a DG animal other than elephant if I had an appropriately chambered single shot.

I don't think you could pay me enough to walk in on an elephant and bank the farm on a perfect brain shot. I figured I had that all lined up on the one I hunted a couple years ago, but promptly found myself needing barrel #2. And a shot from the PH. And a reload, and 2 more shots. And another shot from the PH. Once that first shot was fired, all that mattered was seeing the animal on the ground. But in the mere seconds it took to shoot those 6 rounds, I think I aged a couple years. I'm not sure what my personal minimum is on elephant, but I do know that when the dust settled, my .450-400 double seemed like a pop gun. But then so would any other cartridge, I suppose. Elephant are just so damn big it takes your breath away. Especially when they're 15 - 20 yards away and pissed off at being shot.

It was, however, an interesting moment of personal experience in the double vs. bolt gun debate. The 4 rounds I fired out of that double took a wee bit longer than getting off 4 out of a bolt gun, but had a 5th been required (meaning reloading the bolt gun), then the double would have been faster. As it was, the overall experience left me quite certain that the only real answer to the double vs. bolt gun debate is "it depends". The bolt gun has a slightly higher sustained rate of fire, but the double puts that second shot right behind the first one -- and that counts for something. Sometimes, it counts for quite a lot.

The other thing I'm certain of, however, is that I would have lost that elephant had I been shooting a single shot. There wasn't even a hope of reloading one in the time I had to put a second shot somewhere useful.

Now admittedly, none of this is anything more than experience drawn from a single hunt. But until I manage to go after another elephant, it's all I've got to go on. And when I do manage to book another, I sure as heck won't be taking a single shot rifle with me.

As for the other DG animals...

Leopard are just fine for a single shot, as they're almost always shot over bait and one shot is all you're going to get. You either kill your cat, or wound it, or miss -- but in any event a second shot is either unnecessary or impossible. The cat's dead, or it's gone.

Lion are another matter. Usually shot over bait as well, there's a much greater chance of seeing Fluffy rolling around in an angry ball of hate right after your first shot, and you want to keep putting holes in him. The same goes on not-baited (stalking) hunts, but in those cases it's probably more likely that he'll disappear in the brush pretty quickly. Either way, though, I really, really wouldn't want to look into a PH's eyes after wounding a lion with a single shot rifle and not having been able to reload before it hid in the thick stuff. Elephants scare the clients most. But so far as I can tell, it's the wounded cats that scare the hell out of most PH's.

As for buffalo, I'm with Dogleg on this one. You want to put holes in them. Lots and lots of holes. I'm sure that there are plenty of buff that have expired quickly after one well placed shot. It's just that it hasn't been my experience. The last one took 9 good hits from my .450-400 before it stayed down, and that was after the first shot from about 18 yards knocked it off its feet. I still don't understand buffalo. You can explain to them that they're dead until you're blue in the face, but they often just refuse to believe it.

Of course, your hunt is your hunt, and YMMV and all that. The only bit of all this that I take as personal dogma is "no single shots for elephant." No, you just couldn't pay me enough.

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notlim2424 said:
Maybe you read a different thread than me?


antiqueguy- "anyone going hunting dangerous game should have a bolt gun or a double rifle."
Duggahunter-"Bolt gun as a minimum in a caliber you can shoot and are not afraid of"
c-fbmi-"It is incumbent upon you to show up with the correct type of equipment and the ability to use it quite well. This means a double or bolt gun holding preferably no less than 4 rounds and 6 is better."

No doubt two shots is better than one- All I'm saying is that to cam1936 who said- "I really like Ruger No. 1s. A buff hunt is a ways off for me and I was planning on taking a bolt for my first anyways, however I have wondered what experienced people thought of using a No. 1 on DG."

That he certainly has a viable option for buffalo hunting with his newly acquired #1 in 450NE.

Any rational person can see it carries a bit more risk (in Theory)both to your ass and your wallet but it is dangerous game hunting -if you don't want any risk stay on the couch....what are you doing buffalo hunting in the first place?


if botswana and kenya opened back up tomorrow with a new rule that all hunting had to be done with a singleshot I would be on a plane with a shiny new #1. Would you stay home?
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id actually prefer a double hunting something that could kill me because you can get a quick second shot you might not be able to work the bolt quick enough to get a second shot. sure hunting anything with a single shot could be done but id want something based on the martini action to do so as its quick to reload
 
Not being critical- just asking an honest question -
do you think it would be a "stunt" or "Suicide" to use a single shot 450NE on a buffalo hunt?
how about the people who answer tell us how much DG under their belt

For dogleg I'll get out my calculator to help with the math;).

I'll go first:
5 cape buffalo- 3 with one shot apiece, 1 with 3 shots and one with 4 shots
2 leopards-one shot apiece
1 lion- 1 shot
2 elephants- 1 with side brain, and one heart lung with 2 shots- (second shot was in the hip to drop it as it turned- but it was dead before we got around the side to pay the insurance)

In all instances I shot as much as I could as fast as I could with a bolt gun and I honestly believe the first shot killed those other 2 buffalo -but I could still see them and they were still standing so lead was launched.

Out of those hunts I can honestly say the outcome wouldn't of been any different with a single shot... For the next one who knows?

Now for the real meat of the debate Bolts vs doubles :) my .470 kicks me so hard it makes my .458 lott feel like a popgun so I land squarely on the bolt side... Nothing on gods green earth is as cool as blowing the smoke out of your barrels after a elephant tips over though.... so maybe on the double side a little bit;)
 
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notlim2424 said:
how about the people who answer tell us how much DG under their belt
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I think an even better approach is to ask ourselves how many PH's use single shots. There endeth the debate. ;)


notlim2424 said:
Nothing on gods green earth is as cool as blowing the smoke out of your barrels after a elephant tips over though....
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That, my friend, deserves to be in your tagline :d
 
notlim2424 said:
Not being critical- just asking an honest question -
do you think it would be a "stunt" or "Suicide" to use a single shot 450NE on a buffalo hunt?
how about the people who answer tell us how much DG under their belt

For dogleg I'll get out my calculator to help with the math;).

I'll go first:
5 cape buffalo- 3 with one shot apiece, 1 with 3 shots and one with 4 shots
2 leopards-one shot apiece
1 lion- 1 shot
2 elephants- 1 with side brain, and one heart lung with 2 shots- (second shot was in the hip to drop it as it turned- but it was dead before we got around the side to pay the insurance)

In all instances I shot as much as I could as fast as I could with a bolt gun and I honestly believe the first shot killed those other 2 buffalo -but I could still see them and they were still standing so lead was launched.

Out of those hunts I can honestly say the outcome wouldn't of been any different with a single shot... For the next one who knows?

Now for the real meat of the debate Bolts vs doubles :) my .470 kicks me so hard it makes my .458 lott feel like a popgun so I land squarely on the bolt side... Nothing on gods green earth is as cool as blowing the smoke out of your barrels after a elephant tips over though.... so maybe on the double side a little bit;)
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that depends on what kind of buff for cape that would be a hell no for me water buffalo yes I once intended to go to Australia with a martini henry in .577-450 to hunt some feral game including water buffalo it will happen one day but not right now. recoil don't bother me much as long as the gun fits proper
 
I don't think anyone thinks that cam is planning to ph with his ruger . . . That's a totally different debate. Do you really think that a clients gun and a ph have the same requirements?
 
notlim2424 said:
I don't think anyone thinks that cam is planning to ph with his ruger . . . That's a totally different debate. Do you really think that a clients gun and a ph have the same requirements?
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The same requirements? No. The client is often shooting plains game as well, and generally benefits from a versatile rifle and cartridge suitable to a variety of game at both close and far distances.

However... My own view is that when DG are on the menu, any prudent client is going to choose his rifle based on a simply question: "If I have to sort a mess out by myself, will this gun do it?" Yes, I know, the PH is supposed to be right there beside you with a big stopping rifle. But things sometimes don't work out that way for a whole host of reasons. What if the PH can't see what you see? What if he stumbles and falls? What if his rifle fails or jams? Don't get me wrong -- the PH is there to do a job, and he's the client's insurance policy. But for all his skill and experience, he's only one man -- and there's a lot happening when a DG situation goes south. There's always an element of risk (the very reason we love doing this), but I for one sleep a lot better when I go into a situation as self-reliant as possible. And that means using a rifle that I feel would still be a good choice even if I was hunting alone.
 
I agree completely and for me regardless of whether dg is on the menu in Africa I carry a 375 min. A couple of those Buffalo the ph let me and a tracker go it on our own so it is slightly more than just theory on my part. (Only slightly).
Doesn't caliber have a role to play as well? Buffalo hunting for some shots I would prefer to have a single 450ne than a six shot .375 (I'm thinking full on frontal)
 
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notlim2424 said:
I agree completely and for me regardless of whether dg is on the menu in Africa I carry a 375 min. A couple of those Buffalo the ph let me and a tracker go it on our own so it is slightly more than just theory on my part. (Only slightly).
Doesn't caliber have a role to play as well? Buffalo hunting for some shots I would prefer to have a single 450ne than a six shot .375
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from what I see caliber makes little difference some times its a one shot stop but with buffalo they seem to have a will power unlike anything else I have seen and just want to keep going
 
notlim2424 said:
How many have you shot- and with which calibres?
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0 but I have seen a lot of vids tough sob's cape buffalo is not something id want to hunt with a single shot even if it was .700 NE single shots are fine and dandy when its not game that could kill you the only way id even thing of doing so is in a cull situation where im in a vehicle of some sort even then id want to be able to shoot as many as possible
 
Quite the heated discussion.

Again I'll state I have no experience, which is why I love hearing from the guys who do.

On the point of plugging one as many times as possible one poster mentioned hitting a buffealo 4 times with a double. 4 shots from a double means a trained single shot user would probably get 2 or 3 to the double's 4, a bolt user probably would have got 5 if his rifle held that. It's not like using a single shot means you only actually get 1 shot. One thing is a fact though. You will get less shots in a target with the single and that could or could not matter. I guess one can argue why take that chance? Whereas as another could argue, why take any chances, why not just sit at home on the computer.

I'm going to practice away with both bolt and my new .450 NE. Probably take the bolt, but I honestly think with a sufficient amount of practice I would be comfortable with the No. 1. Maybe that's just the confidence one has sitting in a warm bed in central AB. The kind of confidence one has when one has never stated an angry buffalo in the eye.
 
Cam-when the time comes, ask your ph what he thinks about you bringing a gun that you are totally familiar with, that you enjoy to shoot, that's a#1 in 450ne.
I'm 99% sure he will tell you to bring some a-frames or Tsx's and let's kill a buffalo.

Do you think anybody would be able to tell Jim shockey that a single shot wouldn't work? Boddington, Don Heath, Taylor , selous... The list goes on and on .
Go forth and have fun-it's your money and your memories that you build.

Question the fuzzy math that says that:
1 x450 barrel is suicide,
1 x 700NE is certainly not enough
2 x450 barrels is the best dangerous game gun ever devised,
unless you prefer a bolt and then 6 x375 bullets under your barrel is better than 3x458 bullets under your barrel

My math says 1x 500grain Tsx thru the heart and lungs =1 nice Cape Buffalo mount on the wall;)
 
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notlim2424 said:
Cam-when the time comes, ask your ph what he thinks about you bringing a gun that you are totally familiar with, that you enjoy to shoot, that's a#1 in 450ne.
I'm 99% sure he will tell you to bring some a-frames or Tsx's and let's kill a buffalo.

Do you think anybody would be able to tell Jim shockey that a single shot wouldn't work? Boddington, Don Heath, Taylor , selous... The list goes on and on .
Go forth and have fun-it's your money and your memories that you build.

Question the fuzzy math that says that:
1 x450 barrel is suicide,
1 x 700NE is certainly not enough
2 x450 barrels is the best dangerous game gun ever devised,
unless you prefer a bolt and then 6 x375 bullets under your barrel is better than 3x458 bullets under your barrel

My math says 1x 500grain Tsx thru the heart and lungs =1 nice Cape Buffalo mount on the wall;)
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The bottom line is that shot placement is the key. Notlim2424 is absolutely correct in the likely approach that your PH will take ("let's go and kill a buffalo"). They will give you their recommendation as to what to bring (type of ammo, what they'd like to see you armed with). The key is that you really have to be able to put the first bullet where it's supposed to go. In my experience, you should be getting to know your rifle/ammo combination (shooting standing up, off sticks, as you will be doing in Africa).

You will find yourself shooting a few hundred rounds at various-sized targets (paper pie plates at 50 yards, eventually stretching it out to as you become comfortable putting the first shot and follow-up(s) in the centre of your target). I would look at shooting no more than 30 rounds per session with either my .375 H&H (Ruger RSM), 404 Jeffrey (Heym) or 450/400 3"NE (Verney Carron) until you can do it as second nature.

I would also recommend that you be ready to turn down a shot if you don't feel comfortable about it. Beats the hell out of tracking a wounded buffalo through thick bush for days (done it). Yes, that is another aspect of hunting, but wounded buffalo want to kill you. Simple as that. If your first shot is placed where it's supposed to go, you will collect your dead buffalo without any fuss. Fail to kill it with your first shot and life will become considerably more complicated for you and your hunt will turn into the scenario that all PH's dread - because that's how people get killed. My second cape buffalo was taken with the 404 Jeffrey. One shot, cleaved heart, dead buffalo within 100 yards. Could it have been done with a single shot rifle? Absolutely. Would that have been my preference? No.


One more thing: get Kevin Robertson's book "Africa's Most Dangerous". Written by a Veterinarian/PH who has conducted more than 600 necropsies on shot Cape Buffalos, that one is packed with useful information and is a real eye-opener.
 
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