DG with a single shot

Buffalo are buffalo, As the saying goes "you pays your nickel and you takes your chances"...

I've never hunted the water variety but boddington quite often writes that he thinks they are very similar to cape buffalo- quite placid until wounded or provoked and then quite aggressive.

My own personal theory is that it is the interactions with the natives that make some buffalo more aggressive than others. In the selous or any of the parks in Tanzania the buffalo definitely have to deal with lions on a daily basis but are quite placid. In masaiiland (kitangire I am thinking in particular) the buffalo have to deal with the masaii and their dogs on a daily basis and are known to be very, very aggressive.
As far as I know the Buffalo that hit bob fontana there was unwounded and unpursued - nobody knew it was there until it boiled out of the bush. A german baron was stomped there, Luke samaras's son got tossed there...
the PH's and trackers who hunt there call those buffalo "ninja's" because they are "dressed all in black and they will F%ck you up"

The same PH's hunt the Selous and regard the buffalo there as quite placid. I would think that the lion population is higher(much higher) in the selous- the only difference I can see is they aren't tormented by masaii spears and dogs in the selous.

What does this have to do with hunting with a single shot? Nothing- I just find it interesting.

FYI- we have deliberately herded herds of cape buffalo in Zimbabwe just like hazing cows at home- we chased big herds of 2 or 300 on foot through blocks of that thick stuff to get them into blocks that were more ameniable for us tracking, and to break the big herds up and try and split off some duggaboys. It was the same thing we would do while rounding for branding in the chilcotin-just hotter:d

George Hulme (johnny and nina (ivan carters wife) and davids dad) whose family once owned the entirety of the save conservancy as AFAIK kept us quite entertained one night with stories of how they reintroduced buffalo to the conservancy- They hazed herds and roped off the calves from horseback- exactly the same as we would with range cows. He described it as "quite sporting" I can only imagine that is the understatement of the century...

But all of that just goes to prove that the guys that live amongst them don't treat them with the mystical reverence and possibly exaggerated view of their toughness and malevolence that us internet sports who may get to hunt them a few times, or once or not at all in a lifetime seem to...
 
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I should put my thoughts succinctly and that is every situation is different, and where it may be appropriate in one situation it does not mean that applies across the board simply because we're talking the same species. There's a ton of variation in how different strains act in different environments, let alone the environment itself and what kind of hunting it requires, thick thorns and seven foot grass in a lush and wet area vs North Cape knee high grass for instance.
 
notlim2424 said:
Buffalo are buffalo, As the saying goes "you pays your nickel and you takes your chances"...

I've never hunted the water variety but boddington quite often writes that he thinks they are very similar to cape buffalo- quite placid until wounded or provoked and then quite aggressive.

My own personal theory is that it is the interactions with the natives that make some buffalo more aggressive than others. In the selous or any of the parks in Tanzania the buffalo definitely have to deal with lions on a daily basis but are quite placid. In masaiiland (kitangire I am thinking in particular) the buffalo have to deal with the masaii and their dogs on a daily basis and are known to be very, very aggressive.
As far as I know the Buffalo that hit bob fontana there was unwounded and unpursued - nobody knew it was there until it boiled out of the bush. A german baron was stomped there, Luke samaras's son got tossed there...
the PH's and trackers who hunt there call those buffalo "ninja's" because they are "dressed all in black and they will F%ck you up"

The same PH's hunt the Selous and regard the buffalo there as quite placid. I would think that the lion population is higher(much higher) in the selous- the only difference I can see is they aren't tormented by masaii spears and dogs in the selous.

What does this have to do with hunting with a single shot? Nothing- I just find it interesting.

FYI- we have deliberately herded herds of cape buffalo in Zimbabwe just like hazing cows at home- we chased big herds of 2 or 300 on foot through blocks of that thick stuff to get them into blocks that were more ameniable for us tracking, and to break the big herds up and try and split off some duggaboys. It was the same thing we would do while rounding for branding in the chilcotin-just hotter:d

George Hulme (johnny and nina (ivan carters wife) and davids dad) whose family once owned the entirety of the save conservancy as AFAIK kept us quite entertained one night with stories of how they reintroduced buffalo to the conservancy- They hazed herds and roped off the calves from horseback- exactly the same as we would with range cows. He described it as "quite sporting" I can only imagine that is the understatement of the century...

But all of that just goes to prove that the guys that live amongst them don't treat them with the mystical reverence and possibly exaggerated view of their toughness and malevolence that us internet sports who may get to hunt them a few times, or once or not at all in a lifetime seem to...
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Just caught this, Bell thought nothing of Buffalo and questioned why they were so highly respected as a dangerous game animal, so there is basis to your argument for sure. He talked about how dull and flighty they are, on the whole. I cringe to mention this next part as everyone has an internet story, but my Buffalo PH Jon Collett had his closest shave just after I left from my hunt in the same jesse. At the time, ignorant of whether we faced any real challenge but impressed by his wariness of them when close and in thick stuff, I wasn't sure what to make of it. Not long after I got home he had a charge that stopped at a metre, he had fired and immediately tripped as he turned to move, as the point of stand your ground and shoot had passed, it was on him. He found the bull brained when he rolled over to figure out why it was so quiet. He took some time off following that, as he put it he didn't expect it to rattle him but it hit his nerves.

I feel a good rifle on Buffalo, is a lot like wearing your seatbelt. 99.9% of the time nothing happens and an H&R single .30-06 would do it, but when things get sideways, they can get really sideways. And why would it have the allure if it didn't? That slight risk of drama is what attracts all of us to it. I have to concede, I believe you're right, and take it you assert they are not nearly as dangerous as we think, or at least like to think. I don't agree Buffalo are Buffalo however, breeding has certainly affected them, unbred strains are a different breed. I do believe you're onto something with the human pressure and their attitudes, but I think this has to be combined with the breeding, as the South African Buffalo I've walked through are regularly hunted and harassed- they'll still stand there and chew and wonder what the guy with the stick is up to. So since I've gone both ways on this, I guess the only answer I have is "Who knows?". :)

Oddly enough as an aside and addition Lions are the same experience as Buffalo in my mind, they just want to be left alone. You pretty well walk after them on tracks (if possible) until they tire and wait for you, drama can occur then, but usually doesn't. The actual shooting of Lion or Buffalo is usually quite dull, the walking through bush wondering how close the end of the tracks is, is everything. Perhaps that experience would even be accentuated by a single, but the economic aspect of a lost animal is high on my mind as others here have alluded, and that above all likely influences my choice more than I'd wish to admit.
 
Ardent said:
Just caught this, Bell thought nothing of Buffalo and questioned why they were so highly respected as a dangerous game animal, so there is basis to your argument for sure. He talked about how dull and flighty they are, on the whole. I cringe to mention this next part as everyone has an internet story, but my Buffalo PH Jon Collett had his closest shave just after I left from my hunt in the same jesse. At the time, ignorant of whether we faced any real challenge but impressed by his wariness of them when close and in thick stuff, I wasn't sure what to make of it. Not long after I got home he had a charge that stopped at a metre, he had fired and immediately tripped as he turned to move, as the point of stand your ground and shoot had passed, it was on him. He found the bull brained when he rolled over to figure out why it was so quiet. He took some time off following that, as he put it he didn't expect it to rattle him but it hit his nerves.

I feel a good rifle on Buffalo, is a lot like wearing your seatbelt. 99.9% of the time nothing happens and an H&R single .30-06 would do it, but when things get sideways, they can get really sideways. And why would it have the allure if it didn't? That slight risk of drama is what attracts all of us to it. I have to concede, I believe you're right, and take it you assert they are not nearly as dangerous as we think, or at least like to think. I don't agree Buffalo are Buffalo however, breeding has certainly affected them, unbred strains are a different breed. I do believe you're onto something with the human pressure and their attitudes, but I think this has to be combined with the breeding, as the South African Buffalo I've walked through are regularly hunted and harassed- they'll still stand there and chew and wonder what the guy with the stick is up to. So since I've gone both ways on this, I guess the only answer I have is "Who knows?". :)

Oddly enough as an aside and addition Lions are the same experience as Buffalo in my mind, they just want to be left alone. You pretty well walk after them on tracks (if possible) until they tire and wait for you, drama can occur then, but usually doesn't. The actual shooting of Lion or Buffalo is usually quite dull, the walking through bush wondering how close the end of the tracks is, is everything. Perhaps that experience would even be accentuated by a single, but the economic aspect of a lost animal is high on my mind as others here have alluded, and that above all likely influences my choice more than I'd wish to admit.
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Ya I mentioned briefly in a earlier post that my guide almost ended the hunt. Earlier in the day that I shot mine, we came up to another small group. This was all fairly bushy terrain. I don't know if they winded us, heard some shuffling whatever. But they hauled ass immediately. Now this is where I think a majority of injuries or deaths happen. The buffalos are given credit for "tracking you down and running you over". No one really knows because the hunter is a pancake in the jungle. From my experience they were looking for the path of least resistance to get the hell out of there. Turns out, we were walking down that same path when we were tracking them. So it just so happened they came our way. I think a animal of that size is used to dealing with smaller predators that come into groups. So they know to move through there exit at full speed and just plow through whatever threat is in your way. This must be there strategy because going through tighter, thicker bush means they will need to slowly maneuver there way through, where smaller more agile predators can catch them even easier. I fortunately was already trying to close the distance on the buffalos because I was bow hunting. So it may have been me breaking a twig or something. But because I was already off the more open path and in the trees the buffs totally missed me but went towards the guide and his tracker who were only 15' behind me. Both of them were literallt inches away from being steam rolled.

As mentioned before the hunt was almost over. But after we all had a minute to relax and recoup, another tracker radios us saying he found another group. In a more open area on the edge of the bush. The guide felt this would be easier to come up on, and if they would run they would run out into the field away from us. So we did, and.... the rest is history.

In terms of the wounded buffalo. Well the others in the group ran into the field across to the other bush away from us. The wounded one actually simply stood perfectly still. Didn't move didn't take a step. So I didn't see any aggressive behaviour, but believe me the look on its face made my hairs stand. The perfect motionless stance makes you think oh #### he's coming. Although because it just stood there I gave it a second arrow. The buffalo took about 3 steps and fell over. The aggressive wounded behaviour are probably from non lethal shots. My first arrow was smack in the boiler room. We later found out it cut the heart. So he was probably standing dead after the first arrow. The second arrow took both lungs.
 
I didn't mean it like that really- I meant a buffalo will be as a buffalo will be- the same beast will one day turn and run and the next because of whatever reason- lions/ hyenas harrassed it last night, it was just beat up in a breeding dominance battle, it woke up this morning and its neck was sore, whatever- or for no particular reason on that particular day it wants to stomp something and comes provoked or otherwise. Basically if you are amongst buffalo the buffalo will do as it wants.

Different strains are definitely different temperment wise. I think everyone agrees the forest buffalo in the west while still syncerous caffer are an order of magnitude more aggressive than the much larger southern subspecies.

A similar story I have is the week after we were hazing in the Save the PH I was with (Thierry Labat)and his client put down a very determined charge- The client had thought a northbound buffalo was facing south and put his first shot in significantly on the wrong side of the diaphragm, when they caught up with that one he came, in the aftermath 9 shots were fired before the buffalo was tipped for good ( half of them the surplus of 458 lott shells I left with Thierry). Was it one of the buffalo we chased around? Most likely not, there's lots of buffalo there- no way to tell for sure. But if it was the difference in its attitude was certainly caused by the lead in its belly.

But I think a common theme in almost all of these stories (Mr Fontana excepted) is a poor to very poor first shot. If care is taken with that first shot and its in the right place at the right angle the likelyhood of dramatics is quite low. A single shot can do that.

How many buffalo has Saeed shot without a charge? 3 or 400 the last time I saw him write about it. He's not using a cannon- just putting a .375 bullet where it should be and then taking pictures...
 
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Reading along and the last made point does make sense. And generation or two of domesticated cattle are a world different than wilder ones. Step across a fenceline and Black Angus cattle can change from idly grazing, paying you no mind, to...tail straight out and heading wide open into the tree's, at best. At worst they'll run you over.
Why would Buff's be any different?
Cool. Interesting read guys, thanks.
 
notlim2424 said:
I didn't mean it like that really- I meant a buffalo will be as a buffalo will be- the same beast will one day turn and run and the next because of whatever reason- lions/ hyenas harrassed it last night, it was just beat up in a breeding dominance battle, it woke up this morning and its neck was sore, whatever- or for no particular reason on that particular day it wants to stomp something and comes provoked or otherwise. Basically if you are amongst buffalo the buffalo will do as it wants.

Different strains are definitely different temperment wise. I think everyone agrees the forest buffalo in the west while still syncerous caffer are an order of magnitude more aggressive than the much larger southern subspecies.

A similar story I have is the week after we were hazing in the Save the PH I was with (Thierry Labat)and his client put down a very determined charge- The client had thought a northbound buffalo was facing south and put his first shot in significantly on the wrong side of the diaphragm, when they caught up with that one he came, in the aftermath 9 shots were fired before the buffalo was tipped for good ( half of them the surplus of 458 lott shells I left with Thierry). Was it one of the buffalo we chased around? Most likely not, there's lots of buffalo there- no way to tell for sure. But if it was the difference in its attitude was certainly caused by the lead in its belly.

But I think a common theme in almost all of these stories (Mr Fontana excepted) is a poor to very poor first shot. If care is taken with that first shot and its in the right place at the right angle the likelyhood of dramatics is quite low. A single shot can do that.

How many buffalo has Saeed shot without a charge? 3 or 400 the last time I saw him write about it. He's not using a cannon- just putting a .375 bullet where it should be and then taking pictures...
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Good points all around and I understand you better now, missed much of that my apologies. Yes, poor shots have all the fun, same is said of the fellows I work with in my day job; The worse you are at it, the longer it takes, and the more you make. The highest paid guys are the least talented, and in hunting dangerous game the least talented sometimes have more fun too. They often don't appreciate it however, lots of dropped rifles, one fellow wept openly after a Lion fiasco where I hunted. A friend's brother was guiding here in BC and had a man cry he wanted to go home after a Grizzly incident, which was relatively minor. If it wasn't for the animal's suffering one's mad side would consider shooting more loosely from time to time.
 
Agreed. What started out as a single shot question- turned into a pretty interesting discussion I think, SMGA worthy I think;)

And Dogleg is well past the dozens total.

We are all a product of our limited experiences as well, for me personally I respect elephant more than all the rest of DG. Coincidentally the only determined charge I have been involved in was a completely unprovoked cow that started with her 60 yards away and ended with her being tipped at 4 paces by a perfect brain shot from the PH. But long before that charge I thought elephant were by far the most unpredictable and dangerous of the critters I have experience with. I think any elephant will be just as happy to kill you as not, and some vastly prefer to squish you than to leave you alone. If this conversation was about elephant and not buffalo my opinion would be very different. It is because of elephant- not buffalo or lion that my personal minimum in DG is .375 whether we are following a duiker track or a kudu it matters not to me. If elephant are about I want to be able to dissuade one with force.

Buffalo have so far for me behaved exactly as I would expect a high-headed range cow would. I am familiar with domesticated cattle and sorta understand them-and have (rightly or wrongly) drawn alot of parallels in my head between them. This has been backed up by all my experiences so far- A shot in the right place and they tipped over just like I would expect. If the first one I shot would of taken 9 shots my opinion of them and their similarities with their domesticated cousins would be very different I'm sure.
 
I think that the risk with all Buffalo is exaggerated, and their toughness not stressed enough.

The only out and out in unprovoked charge I ever had was with a cape in Mozambique on island in the Zambezi river. After wading through nut deep water in thick reed grass that towered over our heads, we broke into some comparatively open area just in time for a bull to decide to put the run on us. The locals and the Buffalo have been chasing each other around since the beginning of mankind and I think he was sick of it. Since he came across the opening it wasn't that big of deal, but in the thick stuff we could only see about 10 feet to the sides. That would have been tense. I've had herds overrun our position, but since none of them wanted to make it personal I didnt take it too hard. Once in Zim there was a funny side where a couple hundred ran around us and I could tell that neither the ph and myself were going to run before the other did, so we stood watching them until he suggested in his British accent that we move to where the trackers were up in trees. Stubbornness disguised as courage perhaps, but I know that if the situation into a foot race I'd lose. We strolled ( if you can call walking backwards with your thumb on the safety strolling) back to one of the bigger trees and waited it out with one barrel on each side of the trunk.

Across the board the capes are spookier, but some of the water buffalo are right up there. Mixed herds are wilder in either case, lone bulls are a little more likely to stand their ground. Much depends on how much they are hunted. Some of the big Aussie Bulls simply aren't afraid of anything, much less some piddling human. The next one will take off like a deer. There's aways the problem of which way a herd will run when the shooting starts.

I just like hunting Buffalo, and the danger side of it seldom enters my thinking. Pretty much the opposite of elephants.
 
This has proven an admirably good discussion indeed. Thanks for the thoughts Dogleg, I know well that same toughness in Wood Bison. It's a strange trait as sometimes they just give up, and sometimes, well not so much. Impressively so. This trait seems to apply to wild bovids in a fairly general sense.
 
You'd think that, wouldn't you? Wait till you dump a full mag into one's lungs and he doesn't drop. Or like the guy I hunted with in Zim who put one through the lungs with a .378 Weatherby at last light and had to shoot it 4 more times in the morning 12 hours later. An American I hunted with on cull this year shot his first buffalo 7 times. He would have thought that one through the lungs would have worked too.It was fun to watch his change of thinking between breakfast and first light.

Some go straight down, most don't. The only reliable way to drop a buffalo with one shot is hit the CNS. Their lungs are huge, and the back lobes are big enough that you might as well say they have 4 lungs. Lung shots are considered a #### hit; shoulder and heart is where its at.
 
Ganyana wrote at length about Buffalo, and stated he has seen Buffalo actually recover from being lung shot. Sounds like science fiction but true and it defies all conventional hunting logic, he also wrote about a determined charge after something like 12hrs despite a bullet through both lungs. The lungs are just so much bigger than our biggest ungulates and the dual chambers rather mute the effects of lung hits. I personally followed up and put down a bull Wood Bison for the CO's last year that had been shot four times with a 7mm Mag by poachers, one of them was a good hit too, and he wasn't slowing down hours later. This all said, my Cape collapsed on the spot to a neck shot (all I had), I would avoid lung shots at close to all costs on the first shot, for the following "insurance" shots it's probably one of the better areas to go for just based on the size of the lungs and a moving target.
 
Oh, I will most definitely buy that they won't "drop" to a lung shot.... and that obviously comes with it's own set of problems... but you would have some selling to do to convince me that, they won't "die" from a lung shot...

As for recovering... let's assume the animal does recover... which means the wound was not inspected, there are a host of things that could create a non-fatal "lung-shot-looking" wound... bullet failure, bullet clipping brush before impact, bullet angle cause deflection and sub-cutaneously changing direction etc... etc... if a properly sized (say .375"+) bullet of sufficient weight (say 300 gr+), perforates both lungs squarely, you could "gob smack" me if that animal survives the wound, from ermine to elephant... I say this, having no experience with buffalo and having the utmost respect for the experience of both Ardent and Dogleg...
 
hoytcanon said:
One through the lungs and they are inclined to give up, me thinks...
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A buffalo (or anything else) surviving a lung hit would be a fluke (although it's apparently happened) and it's certainly safe to say that in general a proper lung shot is a fatal shot. But that's not good enough. Doesn't anyone remember the old arguments about "hunting" rifles versus "stopping" rifles? A hunting rifle is capable of delivering an appropriate bullet at an appropriate velocity to the vital area of the game in question, resulting in a quick and humane death, but it is not unexpected for the animal to live for several seconds or minutes after being shot. A stopping rifle is capable of striking a blow that will, under the worst conditions...bad angles, and/or a wounded, adrenaline-charged and aggressive animal...stop that critter in its tracks, not in a few seconds, but right now!

If you want to shoot and kill a buffalo, all by yourself, it would seem logical to use a stopping rifle to do so, and to be practiced and well-versed in its use. But if you just want to shoot at a buffalo, and trust to someone else to actually kill it if things don't play out perfectly, then you can use whatever hunting rifle strikes your fancy as long as its legal. Of course the PH isn't going to actually stop you...he knows where his bread is buttered, after all...but when the SHTF and he has to make a split-second decision between jumping in with his own rifle or letting you finish what you've started on your own, do you honestly, seriously think that if you are carrying a single shot rifle he won't factor that into his decision? Are there any PH's out there that don't tell their client to shoot and keep on shooting until all motion ceases...and then shoot once more? Come on! This is hunting...things don't always go as planned. Do you want to remember the buffalo you shot and killed after a long and exciting stalk...or the one that you poked once, and then the PH knocked it down, and then you put an insurance shot into its motionless body so you could feel like you slew the beast?

Hope for the best...plan for the worst.

I get the appeal of single shot rifles for hunting. I use and enjoy #1's, 1885's, H&R's, a Sharps and especially traditional muzzleloaders. But I wouldn't trust the all-important memory of a major hunt to a gun that increased the chances of someone else jumping in and saving the day if he thought it was necessary...and when DG is involved that decision ultimately rests with the PH, no matter what you and he have discussed beforehand.
 
hoytcanon said:
Oh, I will most definitely buy that they won't "drop" to a lung shot.... and that obviously comes with it's own set of problems... but you would have some selling to do to convince me that, they won't "die" from a lung shot...
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I know the same (albeit exceedingly rare) occurrence of lung-shot buffalo surviving has been written about by Kevin Robertson as well -- and given his status as both a PH and a veterinarian (as well as his first-hand research based on literally hundreds of necropsies on dead buffalo), I'm inclined to at least keep an open mind on the subject.

The long term outcome of any given shot, however, strikes me as not particularly germane to our concerns as hunters. There's "dying" and then there's "dead". Shooting a buffalo one day and having it die the next (following the liberal application of additional lead) is definitely not the desired playbook -- but that this sometimes happens with buffalo when the first shot is in the lungs is an undeniable fact.
 
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