di vs. piston

alberta tactical rifle said:
There are 2 operating systems to run the bolt back to cycle the action.
Gas impingment which is what the ARs were designed with originally and works and the newer piston system that allows the gun to supposedly run cleaner and cooler.

DGI employs a gas tube that runs back to the bolt carrier and literally blows the bolt back with gas from the burning gun powder. The piston systems use gas collected at the gas port to mechanically drive a rod (piston) back to the bolt carrier to operate the rifles action.

Piston systems are all proprietary so parts from 1 maker are not operational with parts from another unlike the Direct Gas Impingement systems are.
Piston systems are well known for carrier tilt, excelerated wear on the upper and buffer tube.

Personally I would not have a piston driven AR, at least until the parts are more universal and some of the issues are sorted out. There seems to be a trend to fix things that are simple and not broken these days, all at the consumers expense.

The Bushmaster rifles are decent, they like DPMS are part of the Remington group which is part of a larger comglomerate, so in all a decent mas produced rifle that like all ARs have unlimited upgradeability.

I prefer our own AT15 rifles for overall quality but have an old XM15 Bushmaster that I won't sell simply because it runs flawlessly and is very accurate.
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We need a thank you button .... Great info :D
 
misanthropist said:
I'm interested that you included Stag in that group...I have generally thought of Stag as the top end of the middle tier. I would be interested to hear any further information you'd like to give on Stag.
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I have three AR's (two AR-15's and an AR-10) with DI and a STAG piston driven. The STAG has excellent workmanship, a fantastic upper to lower fit, you cannot see daylight between them yet the rear pin can be pushed and the two separated just by finger pressure alone. The chamber is Wylde to allow either .223 rem or 5.56 NATO ammo. Another impressive aspect is the trigger pull. Now, factory AR-15's come with trigger pulls ranging from the atrocious to plain sucking but the STAG came with a trigger almost as good as a Geissele on one of my other AR-15's. A buddy of mine, captain in the Virginia State Police and SWAT member, talked me into buying a STAG. He claims their testing, together with FBI weapons experts at Quantico, rate STAG quality up there with LMT, KAC and Colt. In fact, apparently STAG makes most of Colt's parts.
I hope this addresses your question.
 
It's definitely interesting to hear...I am just often specifically interested to hear what KevinB will say about stuff because of his unique perspective as both a pointy-tip-of-the-spear user and as an employee of one of the two or three absolute top-shelf-bar-none builders.

It's one thing to hear "Stags are solid guns" from a guy who shoots a few thousand rounds a year...that describes most of my friends and probably me as well. But if I notice the horse's mouth moving I like to lean in for any information I can get.

Wicked_Police, I noticed a year or two ago, was pretty hot on Stags as well...that is another guy I find useful to pay attention to.

But then a lot of heavy, legit guys from M4C, for example, really bag on them. Stuff like the wylde chamber is ordinarily a big red flag for me. They generally get lumped in with Bushmasters and Armalites. So when I see KevinB put them on his "approved" list I get really interested and want to pry out any extra information I can get.
 
If you are going to buy a piston gun, then just make sure you buy spare parts. HK line is not as necessary, because there line looks like it will be here for a long time..
 
misanthropist said:
It's definitely interesting to hear...I am just often specifically interested to hear what KevinB will say about stuff because of his unique perspective as both a pointy-tip-of-the-spear user and as an employee of one of the two or three absolute top-shelf-bar-none builders.

It's one thing to hear "Stags are solid guns" from a guy who shoots a few thousand rounds a year...that describes most of my friends and probably me as well. But if I notice the horse's mouth moving I like to lean in for any information I can get.

Wicked_Police, I noticed a year or two ago, was pretty hot on Stags as well...that is another guy I find useful to pay attention to.

But then a lot of heavy, legit guys from M4C, for example, really bag on them. Stuff like the wylde chamber is ordinarily a big red flag for me. They generally get lumped in with Bushmasters and Armalites. So when I see KevinB put them on his "approved" list I get really interested and want to pry out any extra information I can get.
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I guess the bottom line is what one wants the AR-15 for and how much one is willing to pay for it. I don't have much access to 5.56 NATO ammo so for me a .223 Rem chamber is fine, however, my experience with the Wylde chamber has been very positive with .223 Rem match ammo so I don't see any negatives. When one deals with top of the line AR-15's, differences between them become more subjective rather than objective. Frankly, for the use we put our AR-15's as civilian gun nutz how does the quality of an LMT, for example, manifest itself over an Armalite? My AR-10A4, with free floating barrel, is very accurate with match ammo and has not malfunctioned on me after 2500 rounds or more with minimal cleaning. The LMT, as an example, is considered the rifle to go gaga over, but I could not justify the huge price difference from my AR-10A4 based on my experience and needs. IMHO, the Stag is perhaps the optimal balance of quality and price.
 
This is not concerning any particular gun boards, but I find that a lot of US gun boards are based on Mob action. Usually one guy came out (who may be a true SME) and then a bunch of others will memorize what he said and regurgitate the same materials over and over again.....then all a sudden it looks like many people have the same experience.Some of the people who regurgitate do not even quite understand what they are regurgitating.

My personal opinion is that Stag/CMT does not make any very special items and their marketing is certainly not as loud as some other brands. They make quite workable products without too much fuss. Most of the attacks on STAG/CMT have been on the way they staked BGC gas key in the past - but the spec only specified the amount of material displaced by the staking, not the type of staking.

I think the major issue with STAG is the way CMT branded it - it is very subtle but people in general do not take an animal head on their guns seriously (bushmaster, stag, panther/DPMS.....) It sounds laughable, but consumer psychology is big part of acceptance.


misanthropist said:
But then a lot of heavy, legit guys from M4C, for example, really bag on them. Stuff like the wylde chamber is ordinarily a big red flag for me. They generally get lumped in with Bushmasters and Armalites. So when I see KevinB put them on his "approved" list I get really interested and want to pry out any extra information I can get.
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I would suggest anyone looking into this argument to be looking up there info on AR15 .com etc and not CGN unfortunately. They are more guys running various DI and piston products to grab a better sample from. Some glaring aspects that everyone not versed in the systems bring up are increased wear and tilt which has been all been resolved by almost every major producer. Also if we are ever wanting to lobby for silencers a piston gun has the ability to adjust gas on the fly with a turn of a screw and runs more reliable doing so

Different smokes for different smokes
 
i want a qualityriflei can do cqb with that is legal restricted or non restricted. i would like to enter cqb comps and improve my skills. realistically if it would be a morewise decision to save longer and spend more on a morereliable, tighter system, id far prefer to do that. im the type of guy who woul rather spend more and be happy, than regret his purchace. thats wy i spent the extra money on an X400 surefiretac light instead of chancing a less expensive model. i spent a lot on the light but i love it! i want my AR purchase to be the same. fnctionality is also a big deal to me. i bought the glock21C becausei feel the compped barrel is functional and if i ever want to do comps where i cant use a comp barrel well then ill buy a newbarrel... at least my slie is till ported for a comp barrel.
Gunnerlove said:
The first and most important question is "what do you want to use it for?"
Plinking at the range?
Service Rifle competition?
CQB competitions?
Fondling it in a basement and posting pictures on the internet?
Other?
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all this being said i know very little about retail and how quality parts translate to preformance. this is where i need help building a rifle or decidngwhich to buy. i was looking at the "tricked out bushmaster" for sale in the ee. it seemedlike a decent pricebt i really dont know the value of anything nor do i know how exactly a pistion conversion helps orif it is even an 'upgrade ' which i would find benificial for an AR built for my use in mind. thank you allfor you help.
 
greentips said:
I think the major issue with STAG is the way CMT branded it - it is very subtle but people in general do not take an animal head on their guns seriously (bushmaster, stag, panther/DPMS.....) It sounds laughable, but consumer psychology is big part of acceptance.
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+1. I haven't bought a Stag lower for that very reason. Silly, I know, but it is the truth.

-- L.
 
It really doesn't matter for most shooters on here..and in Canada with laws preventing the real benefits piston in many ways.....The wear tear just happens in different places compared to Piston or DI...
 
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