Did Canadian forces ever use M14s?

This discussion was recently started on the M14 site. Those that have experience with both ovewhelmingly choose the M14. All concerned liked the FAL as well.

You can argue that the M14 is being put back into service in the mid east strictly because it is cheaper than buying new rifles but the truth is some US manufacturers are building forged M14 parts right now to fill the demand that there is to field more and service the finest battle rifle ever built. Have an FAL, have had M14. I would take the M14 in a heartbeat over the FAL. MTB
 
MatthewMarchand said:
My understanding was that the Israli FALs never had the sand cuts that the L1A1/C1A1 pattern rifles. I believe these were incorporated very early in the design of the Commonwealth patern.
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Yes that's right. I could have written that a little clearer I guess:D fixed it.
Sand cuts were the British solution to the problem.
Forward assist was the Israeli attempt.
The whole Israeli issue is interesting, there are stories of them stripping and cleaning FN's under fire and of soldiers picking up enemy AK's during firefights. If they would have had the sand cuts maybe it would have made the difference. The Israelis did have the biggest problem but so did the Brits before the sand cuts were used. My point is the other two designs do not need this fix, they handle fine sand alot better.
 
But it remains a fact that the FAL was adopted because the US forced NATO to adopt THEIR cartridge. The EM-2 with the .280/.30 performed wonderfully and exceeded every NATO requirement except for one: it wasn't American.

Same thing happened later on. When NATO finally got around to adopting a smallbore cartridge, the Americans already had made close to 4 million M-16s, all in .223. The X-70 with the 4.85mm round exceeded ALL NATO requirements, sometimes by awe-inspiring margins. The rifle was reworked into a .223 (it was designed specifically with this capability in mind), but the original round even exceeded the SS-109 loading in the armour-piercing tests. The standard .223 penetrated one side of an M-1 helmet at 300 metres, the 4.85mm did BOTH sides at 500 and the SS-109 did ONE side at 500.

Again, political pressure intervened.

I would be happy with either an EM-2 or a 4.85mm IW, but such are not allowed to free citizens in free countries.
 
smellie said:
But it remains a fact that the FAL was adopted because the US forced NATO to adopt THEIR cartridge. The EM-2 with the .280/.30 performed wonderfully and exceeded every NATO requirement except for one: it wasn't American.
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Some early prototypes of the FAL were made in .280/30. I think that had the British placed the EM-2 into service and the .280/30 round became NATO standard, the FAL would still have seen widespread adoption among other countries.

As it was, the British ended up with their second choice rifle in a calibre they didn't want.
 
So true, so true.

What REALLY interested me was the 7mm 2nd Optimum cartridge, the so-called 7x49 which was adopted in the FAL by Venezuela. I was intending to build one just when our benevolent Gummint decided that the FAL is a 'terrorist weapon', so that put 'paid' to that project.

Perhaps in my next incarnation, I might live in a free country.

On the other hand, I might come back as a water rat.

The one is as likely as the other.
 
Garand said:
Sorry, but the Canadian gov't purchased 8,000 Garands for the second world war. They seen use defending RCAF bases in France in the '50's and The Canadian Army Manual of Training you want is CAMT 7-15, issued for the M1 Garand in 1953.
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Would you have anymore history of these special Garands? Were they ever sold as surplus/did they have special Canadian markings/etc.?
 
Everyone who's fought or is in a Desert environment dropped the idea of the FAL save for the British.

Israel used the M14 with success, most Middle East armies chose the G3 (Iran, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Jordan) and AK over the FAL. Turkey adopted the G3 after using the FAL as did Greece.

Dimitri
 
Actually the Israelis used the FAL much more extensively than the M14. Check out pics of the 1967 and 1973 wars. The Israelis even built their own FALs. The M14 was used in it's sniper variant and in later years as a weapon for reserve troops. I still recall a nice chat that I had with a bevy of young M14 -armed IDF female reservists in Tiberias some 22 yrs ago. The M14s they had were in "cherry" condition, and so were they.:)
 
i dont no but...

i've been issued the fnc1a1 (c2). have had several m14's (not just norincos). the fnc1a1 is by far a better battle rifle. easier to maintain, the sights are eisier to use and teach, field stripping is easier, ect.

dont confuse a fal or a brit l1a1 with the fnc1. because it aint the same. i've used fal's the quality isn't there. the l1a1 is ok but still isnt at par with the fnc1a1. only thing i liked with the l1a1 was the plastic furniture.

i'm only talking as a battle rifle not a sniper platform/long range. as a platform i think the m14 is your better option.

but then again take the above add $1.52 and you could buy a cup of coffee :p
 
purple said:
Actually the Israelis used the FAL much more extensively than the M14. Check out pics of the 1967 and 1973 wars. The Israelis even built their own FALs. The M14 was used in it's sniper variant and in later years as a weapon for reserve troops. I still recall a nice chat that I had with a bevy of young M14 -armed IDF female reservists in Tiberias some 22 yrs ago. The M14s they had were in "cherry" condition, and so were they.:)
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:needPics:

Just yankin' your chain a bit, Purple!!!
 
purple said:
Them wuz the days before the internet and cellphone cameras like you young whippersnappers depend on today.:eek: Besides, I was only interested in seeing their "guns".:adult:
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I take great offence to that!!!! I ain't never been no whippersnapper!!!!:p

Betcha I can guess which "guns" got the most attention!!!!:D
 
"...the FAL was adopted..." After being redesigned to use the 7.62. Was chambered in 7.62 originally. 7mm Mauser, I think. Canada was the first country to adopt it in 7.62, as I recall.
 
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Okay not M14s, but who cares?
 
Geez, I guess it was their mothers that I was chatting up that day. :D They do grow some fine looking women over there. There used to be two notable topless beaches in Israel, one at Netanya on the Med, and the other at Eilat on the Red Sea (don't ask me how I know);). We used to call the one at Eilat "fried egg beach" (sunny side up,of course) for obvious reasons.:)

There is a bit of a myth about the "fighting Sabras". In the early days they were involved in combat roles because the population was so small. In later times, not so, as the female troops were employed in admin and rear area instructional duties to free the males for combat. The Israelis view their women as the mothers of the nation and are careful to protect them from the dangers of combat . I did my first UN tour over there not long after the Yom Kippur war and had IDF officers tell me that trucks that should have been hauling ammo and POL to the Golan Heights were being used to evacuate the female troops from their camps to avoid any danger of them being taken by the Syrians.

Back to the Canadian use of Garands. A friend who trained in RCEME at 202 Wksp in the late '50s/early '60s told me that there were Garand spares in stock there, and that some of the Garand spares that were imported back from Denmark in the mid-'90s were in Cdn packaging. I think that these may have been the spares which were procured for the support of the 6th Div weapons back in 1945. I have a copy of the 1947 US Army TM for the Garand which is identified to 25 COD in Montreal. 25 COD was the army stockage point for weapons spares. I do not think that this had anything to do with RCAF use of Garands for base defence in Europe in the '50s as each of the 3 services maintained it's own supply system before integration in 1968.
 
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