Did my scope just break?

Chemist said:
Vortex out sells every other brand we carry, in store and online, by over 10 times so you're going to see more recorded failures. I only know of 6 or 7 scopes that we've sold this year breaking and in one case the person fell on their rifle and one the person over tightened the rings and dented the tube. If we had the OP's scope in stock still we would have just switched it out for him.

Ryan
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They out sell other brands because they sell the warranty, not a quality product. Cost is the single most important factor for the majority of consumers, that's why Walmart is so big. Vortex also offers excellent margins to retailers much like 5.11 gear and Blackhawk. High sales figures doesn't mean the product is good, it means its priced to appeal to those who are only concerned with price.

TDC
 
TDC said:
High sales figures doesn't mean the product is good, it means its priced to appeal to those who are only concerned with price.

TDC
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It also means that the same percentage of failures, or even a lower percentage of failures, will result in a larger actual number when compared to a competing product with a much smaller volume of units sold.

I've had warranty issues (all handled to my satisfaction) with several Bushnell scopes over the years. I've had several more problems with Leupold optics over the same timespan...but I own probably 4 times as many Leupolds as Bushnells, and the Leupolds are the scopes that I subject to harsh hunting treatment and crappy weather conditions. Should I therefore conclude that Leupolds are inferior products?
 
jjohnwm said:
It also means that the same percentage of failures, or even a lower percentage of failures, will result in a larger actual number when compared to a competing product with a much smaller volume of units sold.

I've had warranty issues (all handled to my satisfaction) with several Bushnell scopes over the years. I've had several more problems with Leupold optics over the same timespan...but I own probably 4 times as many Leupolds as Bushnells, and the Leupolds are the scopes that I subject to harsh hunting treatment and crappy weather conditions. Should I therefore conclude that Leupolds are inferior products?
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Well bushnell is junk and most of leupold is as well except for their mk6 and mk8 lines which are overpriced. I would be willing to bet had you subjected your bushnells to the same conditions as your leupolds they would fail far sooner and far more often. I am confident that leupold sees far fewer returns than bushnell when comparing percentages. You get what you pay for and in the case of vortex you're buying a killer warranty not a killer product. If your time is worthless and you're okay with constantly removing and remounting optics then drive on.

Tdc
 
Everyone is entitled their own opinion....yours is just wrong ;)

TDC said:
Well bushnell is junk and most of leupold is as well except for their mk6 and mk8 lines which are overpriced. I would be willing to bet had you subjected your bushnells to the same conditions as your leupolds they would fail far sooner and far more often. I am confident that leupold sees far fewer returns than bushnell when comparing percentages. You get what you pay for and in the case of vortex you're buying a killer warranty not a killer product. If your time is worthless and you're okay with constantly removing and remounting optics then drive on.

Tdc
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TDC said:
Well bushnell is junk and most of leupold is as well except for their mk6 and mk8 lines which are overpriced. I would be willing to bet had you subjected your bushnells to the same conditions as your leupolds they would fail far sooner and far more often. I am confident that leupold sees far fewer returns than bushnell when comparing percentages. You get what you pay for and in the case of vortex you're buying a killer warranty not a killer product. If your time is worthless and you're okay with constantly removing and remounting optics then drive on.

Tdc
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Well since you are such an expert why don't you enlighten all of us what high end optics you use...and of course they have never been known to have any faults. Give me a break, if you don't think a SB or a Hensoldt or any other comparable scope can or will go down you are narrow minded. I have seen much higher end scopes than Vortex go down and in case of the SB it took close to 11 months to get it back and this was off of a work rifle as well.
 
I had a very expensive Zeiss fail, dealt with quickly. A lower end Leupold stuck, too where it would not adjust for windage. Sent it and another Leupold off to Oregon as the guy i talked to at Korth in Alberta was curt.....close to rude.....which did not instill a lot of confidence. Shipped my scopes in April, got them back mid October....$55 shipping. The target scope was excellent, the lower end one....no change....i dont think they did anything.

My point....all scopes are great,,,all scopes are horrible. Optics are much better than 20 years ago. Most are made and assembled at the same plants, by workers that get pennies to dollars for wages compared to our wages. That $1000 scope probably left the factory for $75 and doubled in price or better every hand it touched. Its simpler to ship another $75 scope than fix it. Its all a factor of our throw away society, when was the last time you saw a electronic repair shop??

I got out of all of my Leupold, not because they are bad/good/fail. But in reality, again you are paying for a warranty, one that along with their customer service....in my experience ....is overrated. One bit of credit i have to give them is for being the first to offer lifetime warranty, that forced the other makers to both match and improve their products.
 
EC said:
Well since you are such an expert why don't you enlighten all of us what high end optics you use...and of course they have never been known to have any faults. Give me a break, if you don't think a SB or a Hensoldt or any other comparable scope can or will go down you are narrow minded. I have seen much higher end scopes than Vortex go down and in case of the SB it took close to 11 months to get it back and this was off of a work rifle as well.
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I never said quality brands don't fail, they simply fail far less often than the low end stuff. What people here are failing to see is that high end optics have the same warranty as Vortex, except you likely won't need it. I currently use Aimpoint and Trijicon but have used Nightforce and (older) EoTech with zero issues. I don't abuse my gear but getting knocked around or even dropped is not uncommon. The lengthy wait for an S&B is a PIA and not what one would expect. However, when they wish to fix the issue rather than re issue the optic it likely takes a while. The number of failed high end optics out of the box compared to that of Vortex is no contest. I don't recall which CGN member has had 2 Vortex optics fail after very few rounds on a .223 calibre rifle, that's plain pathetic. I can tell you without a doubt that the markup on Vortex is 50% or greater. An associate I know informs me that he can get any Vortex from the shop for 50% less than retail and sometimes more. Now, if that is the employee discount and the shop is still making a buck as no business sells on par or for a loss. And Vortex is still making a buck, just what is the cost of that optic to produce???? Add in the propensity for Vortex to replace over repair without hesitation and the curiosity about the margins peaks...

Buy what you like, but I don't want to gamble on a dead optic right out of the box.

TDC
 
TDC said:
I can tell you without a doubt that the markup on Vortex is 50% or greater. An associate I know informs me that he can get any Vortex from the shop for 50% less than retail and sometimes more. Now, if that is the employee discount and the shop is still making a buck as no business sells on par or for a loss. And Vortex is still making a buck, just what is the cost of that optic to produce???? Add in the propensity for Vortex to replace over repair without hesitation and the curiosity about the margins peaks...

TDC
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50% off SUGGESTED retail is likely the case. Street price is way lower. Vortex has taken huge market share from it's competitors for a reason. They offer significant value over similar offerings in other brands. I could care less what their margins are. Ill buy a scope and have it for life if I choose. If sell it, it is still under an all perils type warranty for the new owner. Glass is as good or better then others in the same class, adjustments are repeatable, I can beat on it and not worry about it. I'm building a precision rifle for shooting PRS type matches and the Razor deuce is high on my list for many reasons including the warranty, which will cover it if smash my scope while leaning through a truck window to shoot 1-2 moa ukd steel targets lol
 
This is funny,
Comparing quality of vortex to s+b is really No comparison.
It's like comparing a kia to a Ferrari.

I have seen many very high end scopes fail,
I have not yet seen a vortex fail. But I will give it time.

Point is, I know that my money in vortex vow what I am doing is a safe investment. I can just bring it to my dealer and I walk away with a new one.

If I bought a high end optic and it did break.... It is just going to cost me more in shipping and repair.


Ps. The high end scopes that I have seen break were almost always a "send it in.... it was misused... We can repair out of warranty"
 
Shooter1971 said:
50% off SUGGESTED retail is likely the case. Street price is way lower. Vortex has taken huge market share from it's competitors for a reason. They offer significant value over similar offerings in other brands. I could care less what their margins are. Ill buy a scope and have it for life if I choose. If sell it, it is still under an all perils type warranty for the new owner. Glass is as good or better then others in the same class, adjustments are repeatable, I can beat on it and not worry about it. I'm building a precision rifle for shooting PRS type matches and the Razor deuce is high on my list for many reasons including the warranty, which will cover it if smash my scope while leaning through a truck window to shoot 1-2 moa ukd steel targets lol
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Don't pretend to know what I'm talking about. The discount was 50% from retail, and that was the minimum.. As I said, quality brands have the same warranty and you likely won't need it. The most baffling aspect of the Vortex craze is that people are willing to pay the price for their "high end" stuff when better known brands can be had for similar money, it just doesn't make sense.

Your money your choice...

TDC
 
I wouldn't even begin to pretend to know what you are talking about!! Vortex has a discount program based on SUGGESTED retail. I know this for a fact. I know sponsored shooters who receive this discount, one of whom works in a retail location that handles vortex. If the store is doing their own discount and they are giving 50% off their normal retail, they are A losing money or B selling at suggested retail.

enuff said....

S1971


TDC said:
Don't pretend to know what I'm talking about. The discount was 50% from retail, and that was the minimum.. As I said, quality brands have the same warranty and you likely won't need it. The most baffling aspect of the Vortex craze is that people are willing to pay the price for their "high end" stuff when better known brands can be had for similar money, it just doesn't make sense.

Your money your choice...

TDC
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TDC said:
The most baffling aspect of the Vortex craze is that people are willing to pay the price for their "high end" stuff when better known brands can be had for similar money, it just doesn't make sense.

TDC
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Sorry to contribute to the derailment of the OP's post, but...

While I'm not crazy about most Vortex bashing I do agree with TDC on this point. I think entry level Vortex scopes make sense, but I don't think I'd ever buy one of the higher magnification $1,000 +/- models.
I love my PST 1-4x, and I've put it through a little bit of abuse. If it makes it through next years shooting season, when I plan to really abuse it, then I'll love it even more.
 
TDC said:
Don't pretend to know what I'm talking about. The discount was 50% from retail, and that was the minimum.. As I said, quality brands have the same warranty and you likely won't need it. The most baffling aspect of the Vortex craze is that people are willing to pay the price for their "high end" stuff when better known brands can be had for similar money, it just doesn't make sense.

Your money your choice...

TDC
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Doesn't Schmidt and Bender have a two year warranty? Don't get me wrong I think they are one of the best optics out there but they should be for the price you pay for them.
 
EC said:
Doesn't Schmidt and Bender have a two year warranty? Don't get me wrong I think they are one of the best optics out there but they should be for the price you pay for them.
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I'd rather pay for a quality product made with quality parts than a free replacement down the road, both of which are worked into the initial prices.
I don't see a great deal of S&B warranty threads on here. Tons about Vortex and their superb replacement policy. Funny they haven't gone broke yet giving out all those "free" products.
 
Reminds me of a quote from Tommy Boy.....


Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of ####. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.
 
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