Dieppe august 19 1942

The History Channel proposition that there was a hidden reason for the raid makes some sense as to why the raid was done after it looked like it had been compromised.

i doubt the snatch mission was the reason for the raid in the first place, but it does make sense it was added in and became a reason to complete the raid.

I knew an officer who was taken prisoner there. He would break into tears when the raid was discussed. So many young men shot to death around him.
 
I'm certain that my Father would find this proposition very interesting.
I'm also certain, that other questions would come to the fore.

If indeed, the snatch mission was considered so vital.
Why was Bomber Harris not forced to press on with the cancelled bombing missions? Missions designed to soften defenses in the cliffs overlooking the beaches?
The Navy also refused to send Capital Ships to participate in softening shore defenses. The water being shallow, and the presence of enemy submarines was a big factor. A destroyer's guns are not terribly effective, against well dug-in shore defenses. why was it not worth it under the circumstance?

It may well be the Truth of the matter.
And they were ALL young men.

My Father at age 29, was a Lt. Colonel commanding a Regiment, and leading his troops in the assault. He was wounded five times during his eight hours or so on the beach.
He considered himself very fortunate to have survived this operation.

His Regiment, Les Fusilliers Du Mont Royal.
Did in fact receive Commando training prior to the Raid.

another 2 cents Eh!:)




Ganderite said:
The History Channel proposition that there was a hidden reason for the raid makes some sense as to why the raid was done after it looked like it had been compromised.

i doubt the snatch mission was the reason for the raid in the first place, but it does make sense it was added in and became a reason to complete the raid.

I knew an officer who was taken prisoner there. He would break into tears when the raid was discussed. So many young men shot to death around him.
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Halger280HVMag said:
The avatar is taken from the original poster hanging on my living-room wall.
See post #39.:)
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I missed post #39 but I recognized the connection immediately on reading post #62. You must be very proud, I know I would be. :)

I won't hijack the the thread but I found out quite recently that my wife's grandfather won the Military Cross in Holland as a young officer with the GGFG (coincidentally a unit I was with for 2yrs ~50yrs later). Sadly postwar, haunted by his experiences he succumbed to alcoholism and eventually took his own life in the mid 50s. That generation was just supposed to come back and "soldier on", without any regard for the hidden scars.
 
For a well illustrated book on the Dieppe operation, which offers both a human and a historical perspective, I recommend; Dieppe 1942, Echoes of Disaster by William Whitehead published in 1979. The book contains several photos and quotes of Lt Col Dollard Menard who commanded the FMR during the operation. In his acknowledgments the author expresses his thanks to Dollard Menard and four other veterans/survivors of the raid who accompanied him on his visit to Dieppe.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, the follies of the Dieppe raid are so evident and were so avoidable, that we don't use it as an educational illustration in our military training process. That only serves to highlight the extraordinary service and sacrifices that our soldiers made in an impossible situation. Your father suffered 5 wounds, but he must have died a thousand deaths watching his battalion being cut to ribbons around him with virtually nothing that he could do to stop it.
 
Good recommendation. Thank you.:)

A good deal of information comes up, simply by entering "Dollard Menard" in any search engine.
A lot of information about the Dieppe Raid is available here.
http://www.cbc.ca/history/EPISCONTENTSE1EP14CH1PA3LE.html

He was shattered by the losses suffered in this battle.
Of 600 men of the FMR landed on the Dieppe beach, only 23 men remaining among the survivors of the FMR, were judged to be still fit for action after the Raid.

My Father loved and respected his soldiers.
Evidently they returned the feelings.
As some of his few remaining able-bodied men, loaded him on a Landing craft returning to the fleet.
Whereupon no longer able to move, he continued to encourage his troops and organize AA Defences.

As long as he lived, he continued to look after his troops.
Veterans Affairs, Medical issues, Pension issues, Etc.

Brigadier General Dollard Menard. 1913-1997

purple said:
For a well illustrated book on the Dieppe operation, which offers both a human and a historical perspective, I recommend; Dieppe 1942, Echoes of Disaster by William Whitehead published in 1979. The book contains several photos and quotes of Lt Col Dollard Menard who commanded the FMR during the operation. In his acknowledgments the author expresses his thanks to Dollard Menard and four other veterans/survivors of the raid who accompanied him on his visit to Dieppe.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, the follies of the Dieppe raid are so evident and were so avoidable, that we don't use it as an educational illustration in our military training process. That only serves to highlight the extraordinary service and sacrifices that our soldiers made in an impossible situation. Your father suffered 5 wounds, but he must have died a thousand deaths watching his battalion being cut to ribbons around him with virtually nothing that he could do to stop it.
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Great posts guys. Sadly I missed this post till just now:(. Dieppe needs alot more mention for sure, so the sacrifices will be known by mainstream Canada.

One note,..... For years, the supposedly German reel footage shot during the battle showing Canadians on the beach dead, dying and men trying struggling to get over obstacles, wire etc, was this actually Dieppe for sure? It looks so to me, and if it is, the term "Fog of Battle", is very very clear to me. It's the footage shown in the War Amps "Never Again" song.

Caught in a crucible like that, waiting for a bullet fired from god knows what direction to find it's mark. OMG, I've tried to imagine.
 
joe n said:
69 years ago this morning....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieppe_Raid
I was there in 2002 , need to find some pics to post. Anyone else been there?
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My Grandfather fought there for us Canadians, was taken prisoner for the remainder of the war. He survived and passed away only a few years ago
at the age of 88. He was born in Crowsnest. Had a picture perfect memory of the entire ordeal and told us endless stories about what happened.

My Sister just got back from there this year from a Canadian Forces ceremony, she's a Captain now.

Apparently, they just released a 70th anniversary televised new documentary on Dieppe. Sadly, I missed it.
According to him, some of these documentaries on Dieppe are absolute BS. He was really angry at how some key points were completely wrong or
made up.
 
Johnny Mann R.I.P. Johnny was the SO at my Cadet Corps when I joined. He was Montreal Fusiliers and walked off the Dieppe beach with 8 bullet holes in him. One of which was a compound leg fracture. He didn't know about the leg until the MO on the ship asked him how he got off the beach.
 
I was old enough 70 years ago to well remember the disaster that was Dieppe.
I well remember the news reports the next day on CBC radio, and one lame excuse after another being put forward, as for the reason of the raid. To this day, I don't think the true reason for the raid as ever been made public.
When the war was finally over and our veterans began coming home, we heard the same reason for the raid told by friends we knew before they went over seas.
First some facts. Some Canadian boys enlisted first thing in the fall of 1939 and were soon in England.
Most of these young soldiers were just itching to get fighting, but instead they were in a massive Canadian soldier base at Aldershot, England.
Repeated training day after day, week after week, month after month and year after year. Meanwhile, Nazi Germany and even Italians, were marching over much of Europe and north Africa.
Just think of the monotony of this after two and three years!
What our friends returning from the war told us was that the great number of soldiers idling their time at Aldershot, were almost beyond control by August 1943. They said authorities were really scared of a major riot by the soldiers who wanted to get fighting.
So the story goes that one of our typically wise military leaders came up with the plan to send them on a raid! Cool them down, as it was stated.
In all the years since that terrible day, I have never heard of any excuse stated for the raid, being more logical than what I have outlined here.
 
Sad as it is, The "History" channel is about pawn stars and american restorations and all sort of stuff that is happening now. Is that the best they can come up with?
 
As I recall, Ian Flemming was at Dieppe offshore on a destroyer - part of the team leading the op. Supposedly he had some special forces types in the area to try and capture enigma material. There's a theory Dieppe was intended as a distraction for that objective.
 
Claven2 said:
As I recall, Ian Flemming was at Dieppe offshore on a destroyer - part of the team leading the op. Supposedly he had some special forces types in the area to try and capture enigma material. There's a theory Dieppe was intended as a distraction for that objective.
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The allies would have sacrificed almost anything for a naval Enigma at that time. Flemming wanted to personally fly a German bomber over the channel at night, flame out, mayday, Stephen Segal the German rescue ship, steal the Enigma and escape in a lifeboat. Turing was mad as heck when "Operation Ruthless" was cancelled.
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ruthless

"I suggest we obtain the loot by the following means:
1. Obtain from Air Ministry an air-worthy German bomber.
2. Pick a tough crew of five, including a pilot, W/T operator and word-perfect German speaker. Dress them in German Air Force uniform, add blood and bandages to suit.
3. Crash plane in the Channel after making S.O.S. to rescue service in P/L.
4. Once aboard rescue boat, shoot German crew, dump overboard, bring rescue boat back to English port.
In order to increase the chances of capturing an R. or M. with, its richer booty, the crash might be staged in mid-Channel. The Germans would presumably employ one of this type for the longer and more hazardous journey. F. 12.9-40.[SUP]["[/SUP]
 
Naval Enigma was bad enough, but that was mostly 'software'.

What they needed was a 4-rotor Enigma, designed only for U-boat use/U-bot communications. THAT was the solid-gold ring.

One result of Dieppe was that our guys got a good look at the guts of a Jerry radar. At that time, Jerry was better at short wave-lengths than we were; the Cavity Magnetron, not yet in use, would render all German radar developments to date obsolete.

But such an AWFUL cost......
 
A family friend Pierre Vennat, whose Father died on the beach at Dieppe. Related in a Facebook post yesterday. That he was saddened to see NO Governmental representation of any sort at the remembrance ceremonies held at Dieppe yesterday. there were about 200 participants, of which 4 were survivors of the Dieppe Raid.

He further commented that the F.M.R. Memorial stank of urine.
Visiting and local drunken idiots using it (and others) as a urinal.

Lest we Forget

Lieutenant André Vennat. Les Fusiliers Mont-Royal. Dieppe. August 19 1942.

How soon forgotten eh!
 
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That's absolutely hearbreaking to hear :(
Leonard Davies, South Saskatchewan Regiment, never made it off the beach.
QUOTE=Halger280HVMag;9027080]A family friend whose Father died on the beach at Dieppe. Related in a Facebook post yesterday. That he was saddened to see NO Governmental representation of any sort at the remembrance ceremonies held at Dieppe yesterday. there were about 200 participants, of which 4 were survivors of the Dieppe Raid.

He further commented that the F.M.R. Memorial stank of urine.
Visiting and local drunken idiots using it (and others) as a urinal.

Lest we Forget

How soon forgotten eh![/QUOTE]
 
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