Dies too tight? Chamber too big?

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Findal

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Hi
1st post.

I have a new CZ 527 in .204 and after firing the first 90 bullets I tried to reload the shells but have die problems resulting in questions I hope someone can help with.

The brass is severly sticking in the sizer die now.

The new .204 brass(Winchester) was ladder loaded in .2 gr increments from min to 4/5 max load using H4895 using the RCBS press and RCBS FL 2 die set to originally size and load the rounds.
All loading was fine and shots fired showed no overpressure signs of flatened primers or overly blackened necks or sticky removal. All shots chronographed as expected.

The fired cases were tumbled clean.
Light sizing lube applied(RCBS 2).
Neck insides brushed with mica.

The first 3 cases were stiff to press into the die. I noticed a slight dark ring at head top when removing from dies, but this rubbed off and seemed nothing other than greyish lube? that had only been rubbed/ pressed down that far; it seemed above the head was resized while the head was fine.(fine tooling marks on brass from below neck to above head--no scratches)

The next case got stuck in the die, and the LEE.204/223Mag shell holder pulled through the brass rim. So, unscrewed all die and tapped out brass.
Reassembeled die and the next case got stuck again. Repeated dissassembly and tapped out brass, but this time the expander had stayed inside the brass (unscrewed from decapping pin) and I broke it.

Checked remaining brass and found that they would only fit 1/2 way into die(decapper/expander removed) before they got stuck(hand tested).
Also had shells from 20 Hornady factory loads, they were the same.

This is the tightest I have seen once fired brass(not much experience) in a die and fear it may signal an issue with my new rifle; or is it the dies?

Does my rifle have an oversize chamber?(beyond specs)
Is this dangerous or ...bad?
Should new dies be polished(Flitz or something) before use?
Would neck sizing fired brass be the proper way to solve this issue?
Should I have RCBS resize dies to my brass?
???

Any help or advise would be greatly appreaciated.

Thanks
Findal :canadaFlag:
 
First off, welcome, and you have come to the right place for help.


Something is definitely wrong.


1) If your chamber was greatly oversized(which I DOUBT it is) you would have a pretty fair sized pressure ring(expansion) at the base of your brass. Best way to tell if you have a oversize chamber is put a factory round in and see how much play a little is o.k...too much and you can always send rifle to gunsmith and get him to check the chamber.

2) Get a set of calipers and measure factory brass dimensions then measure your fired brass.

3) I doubt the dies are out of spec but it is possible...

4) Are you using a lube pad and rolling the brass on it? Did you try using a little more lube?

You can find specs for the 204 Ruger at this site to compare your measurements.

http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/ai.cgi?sn=LVbQlIAoOm&catid=270=LBRulmoDBw
 
I think 350 Mag is on the right track. Try a bit more lube. I bet you didn't clean the dust from the tumbler off the cases before you lubed them. This reduces the efficiency of the lube.
 
Last edited:
Findal said:
Hi
1st post.



The fired cases were tumbled clean.
Light sizing lube applied(RCBS 2).
Neck insides brushed with mica.


Any help or advise would be greatly appreaciated.

Thanks
Findal :canadaFlag:
Click to expand...

Try giving the dies a good cleaning

I use RCBS lube and it works fine - as long as I get enough on.

Make sure the body AND the neck are coated. Try to keep the lube off the shoulder.
 
Findal said:
Does my rifle have an oversize chamber?(beyond specs)
Click to expand...


Im sure the problem is as others stated.. you need more lube.

In regars to your chamber being a little larger than spec:
look at the shoulder of your fired brass.
Take your calipers and measure all the different points shown on your reloading manual. Is there a large difference between your shell and what the specs say?

If its larger by a little bit, thats fine. I would suggest neck sizing instead of full lenght sizing to maximize brass life. The more the brass gets reshaped, the weaker it gets. One day you might split a case when you are reloading, or it may split when you shoot it.

"once fired" brass from your own gun is custom fit to your chamber. Its the best brass you can get!
 
Findal said:
Hi
1st post.

I have a new CZ 527 in .204 and after firing the first 90 bullets I tried to reload the shells but have die problems resulting in questions I hope someone can help with.

The brass is severly sticking in the sizer die now.

The new .204 brass(Winchester) was ladder loaded in .2 gr increments from min to 4/5 max load using H4895 using the RCBS press and RCBS FL 2 die set to originally size and load the rounds.
All loading was fine and shots fired showed no overpressure signs of flatened primers or overly blackened necks or sticky removal. All shots chronographed as expected.

The fired cases were tumbled clean.
Light sizing lube applied(RCBS 2).
Neck insides brushed with mica.

The first 3 cases were stiff to press into the die. I noticed a slight dark ring at head top when removing from dies, but this rubbed off and seemed nothing other than greyish lube? that had only been rubbed/ pressed down that far; it seemed above the head was resized while the head was fine.(fine tooling marks on brass from below neck to above head--no scratches)

The next case got stuck in the die, and the LEE.204/223Mag shell holder pulled through the brass rim. So, unscrewed all die and tapped out brass.
Reassembeled die and the next case got stuck again. Repeated dissassembly and tapped out brass, but this time the expander had stayed inside the brass (unscrewed from decapping pin) and I broke it.

Checked remaining brass and found that they would only fit 1/2 way into die(decapper/expander removed) before they got stuck(hand tested).
Also had shells from 20 Hornady factory loads, they were the same.

This is the tightest I have seen once fired brass(not much experience) in a die and fear it may signal an issue with my new rifle; or is it the dies?

Does my rifle have an oversize chamber?(beyond specs)
Is this dangerous or ...bad?
Should new dies be polished(Flitz or something) before use?
Would neck sizing fired brass be the proper way to solve this issue?
Should I have RCBS resize dies to my brass?
???

Any help or advise would be greatly appreaciated.

Thanks
Findal :canadaFlag:
Click to expand...

Findal
Canadian Tire in my area has Mastercraft Digital Calipers on sale for $17.97. If you don't already have one, this is an inexpensive way to get a tool that is definitely indispensible for reloading. This would allow you to measure your fired brass and compare it to new dimensions and indeed see for yourself, if your chamber is large.

NormB
 
stuck brass

i didnt see what kind of lube you are using i had the same type of problem with hornady one shot case lube in the pump bottle , hornady said they had a problem when mixing the ingredients, lyman or rcbs are the best ones to use as lube
 
enfield p said:
i didnt see what kind of lube you are using i had the same type of problem with hornady one shot case lube in the pump bottle , hornady said they had a problem when mixing the ingredients, lyman or rcbs are the best ones to use as lube
Click to expand...

Some home brew lubes,
Anhydrous lanolin (purchase at the drug store) works the best for me. Bullet swagers use it as part of their lube when pointing jacketed bullets. A bit messy, and has to be cleaned with solvent, but no stuck cases. Keep all lube off the shoulder, this will lead to dents.

I have been experiimenting with Arctic Dubbin..(boot water proofing wax). Cheaper than Imperial sizing wax. Worked well on outside of cases, but not as good as lanolin when used as an inside the neck lube, when running cases over an expander mandrel.

NormB
 
Yeah, more lube is always good.

Also check to make sure the dies are properly adjusted - it shouldn't need to come all the way into contact with the shell holder.

For that matter, why are you full lenght sizing in the first place? Back the die off a half to a full turn to perform partial sizing only. Or, better still, get a neck sizing die.
 
A neck sizing die would help with accuracy as long as your once fired cases still chamber.I assume you are using the lube in the pump bottle,if you let the cases sit too long before running through your die they will stick no matter what manufacture of die you use.Even though the bottle might say you can do it when lube is dry from experience I'm telling you no.Freind of mine jammed a case in his rcbs 7mm mag. die,it was the 46th case after spraying the lot.By the time we got it appart defap rod was fubar...
 
Thanks Everyone

After reading your posts and taking to heart the message of "more lube"(RCBS Case Lube #2), I tried again with much better success. :dancingbanana:

I picked up the digital caliper(Thanks, was looking for a deal) and measured shells. New, new sized, fired and fired/sized. Wow, what a relief to find that things aren't as far out of whack as I had feared. Even the once fired brass was all undersized compared to spec from AmmoGuide. :)

Then I heavily lubed brass(for me) and ran it into the RCBS .204 die(well cleaned), minus the expander/decapper(broken). It didn't stick!:D In - Out as slick as could be.
Only having loaded for 25.06 before I had never used as much lube and was afraid of those dents from overlubing that I've read about.

Great response and really appreaciated all comments. That sure made coming out from lurking well worthwhile.

Thanks.
 
you might want to consider a different lube, too. In my experience, you really do need a LOT of the RCBS spray lube, especially when compared to the Lyman spray stuff which I favour
 
I have , in over 40 years of reloading, used a variety of lubricants. These have ranged from commercial case lubes (some good, some not) to used motor oil (not bad but messy). My only stuck case came when I tried to use some 3 in 1 oil. In addition to the above I have used neatsfoot oil, Dubbins boot grease, Hoofflex, Johnson&Johnsons Baby Oil, Dexron, and more. One of the most effective lubes I used once when I was reloading at the range and had forgotten my lube pad (well soaked with neatsfoot). The only thing I had resembling a lube was some butter (Foothills-unsalted). I applied a very small amount with my fingers and did it ever work good! Sizing was accomplished with less effort than most anything I had used. Cleanup was easy since I had used so little there was virtually no residue. A teaspoon of butter would size hundreds of cases. I would stay away from salted butter. An important tip: It's best to take a small amount from the butter dish rather than taking the whole dish to your reloading bench. There are severe limits to a wife's understanding. Regards, Bill.
 
I ran out of the Lee case lube that I used when I first started to reload and then I tried ordinary Vaseline. I used a little between my fingers and it worked better than the expensive stuff and didn't gum up like some other lubes do. The cleanup was very easy too, after resizing and chamfering in my portable drill I just kept it spinning while wiping the case with a small piece of old towel. My old canuck crying towels work very well for this purpose......:D
 
prosper said:
you might want to consider a different lube, too. In my experience, you really do need a LOT of the RCBS spray lube, especially when compared to the Lyman spray stuff which I favour
Click to expand...

+1

I have heard the same thing....stay away from the spray lube.

I stick to the regular RCBS squeeze lube and roll my cases on the lube pad....this also ensures you do NOT get any lube on the case shoulder which can cause dents.

Never a stuck case for me, and I always lube the inside of the case neck as well.
 
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