Differences between M305 and M1A besides cast/forged receiver?

givemeliberty

givemeliberty

Regular
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I am wondering if someone who has first hand experience with both rifles can say if there are any important differences between the operation of the two rifles.

I am not trying to start another vicious Norinco vs Springfield argument; I am aware that Springfield Armoury M1A receivers are cast and Norinco receivers are forged. I am aware that forged receivers are better.

I am concerned with the differences between the two rifles, if there are any, besides the receivers being cast/forged. Thanks.

(I am looking to get an m14 and I am trying to determine what the best choice would be. I am undecided as of yet between Norinco, Springfield, or possibly LRB)
 
I don't have the energy tonite to type a novel but this topic comes up every now and then.

The authority on this is Lee Emerson, a researcher and guru on all things M14.
Read his M14 Rifle History and Development 2009, it will tell you what you want to know.

Here is the link: ht tp://www.m14.ca/books/M14_RHAD_Text_Only_Edition_100815.pdf

Happy reading, it will take you quite a while;)
 
I'm no kind of expert whatsoever - just an end-user who has owned both. A while back I wrote a review on these types of rifles:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=526433

Stock Norcs are great value - really hard to beat. Moderate improvements are well worth the expense but stop there and understand that resale of the M1A will always be better than a dressed-up Norc which after a certain point becomes something that, no matter what parts you used or who did the work, remains a Norc. Yesterday I had to list my M1A for sale to pay for a custom rifle build - I had twelve genuine offers when I opened up the computer this morning. A Norc with $1500 worth of USGI added to it would still be listed and would remain so for a long time.

I have no experience of the LRB - just drooled a few times :)
 
Tomochan said:
Stock Norcs are great value - really hard to beat. Moderate improvements are well worth the expense but stop there and understand that resale of the M1A will always be better than a dressed-up Norc which after a certain point becomes something that, no matter what parts you used or who did the work, remains a Norc. Yesterday I had to list my M1A for sale to pay for a custom rifle build - I had twelve genuine offers when I opened up the computer this morning. A Norc with $1500 worth of USGI added to it would still be listed and would remain so for a long time.
Click to expand...

I think the reason customized Norc's don't sell has more to do with the fact that they are customized than with the fact they are Norc's.

Everyone has their individual tastes and aren't always willing to buy a rifle that has one or two things that they don't want on it. This is especially true of people who aren't willing to part out their rifles. The more custom parts a rifle has, the less of an audience it appeals to... the longer it takes to sell.
 
Adding USGI parts is the best thing you can do to your chinese clone. Like most things cars, boats, houses it will never be worth the sum of the parts/labor. It takes considerable effort to assemble an M14 type rifle. I think the effort that guys like M14 Doc put into proper assembly plays a big part in what you have in the end.

This cast vs forged thing is old. There is more to metalurgy than the process of shaping/hardening. Investment casting is a more modern proceedure and works just fine. The original USGI recievers were said to be good for 400,000+ rounds and the cast ones are said to be 90% of that. Lets see you wear one out.

Common chinese rifle issues are, improperly indexed barrels, soft sight serations, poor sights, soft bolts, soft trigger components, garbage wood. Common M1a issues are extractor claws and a limited number of cast bolts. You will hear differently on this site only. I don't hear a fraction of the M1A bashing anywhere else.

If I purchased an M14S it would be with the sole intention of building a complete rifle on the reciever but at that point you might as well buy LRB reciever or rifle if the forged thing keeps you awake at night.

If you are on a budget buy a Norinco and shoot it.
 
Hi. A new M1A starts at about 2 grand. An M305 runs around $400. Difference is the name and the stock wood. You don't have to rebuild an M305 to have a shooter.
Cast vs forged doesn't make a lot of difference. Mostly a preception by U.S. shooters. Engine blocks are cast and seem to work.
 
There is a huge cost difference. The M1A shoots a little bit more accurately and the Norc may have more quality issues (most new ones don't). For the price of an M1A you can build a generally higher performing Norc, if you want to mess around and take some time. Modified Norcs are like modified F-150s; you will never get your money back when they are sold. Do you drive a luxury car when you could drive something costing $15K new? Then the M1A is for you. Do you drive 6 year old domestic because that gets the job done and it's all you can afford? Buy a Norc.
 
emerson said:
Do you drive a luxury car when you could drive something costing $15K new? Then the M1A is for you. Do you drive 6 year old domestic because that gets the job done and it's all you can afford? Buy a Norc.
Click to expand...

Not really a great comparison in my opinion. When it comes to vehicles all I am concerned with is something that can get myself, other people, and whatever supplies I need to transport from point A to point B. Anything else is icing on the cake.

With a rifle, I think it is a lot more intricate and the fine details are extremely important. I want my guns to be extremely good functioning tools that I can feel confident will perfrom excellently every time I use them.
 
givemeliberty said:
Not really a great comparison in my opinion. When it comes to vehicles all I am concerned with is something that can get myself, other people, and whatever supplies I need to transport from point A to point B. Anything else is icing on the cake.

With a rifle, I think it is a lot more intricate and the fine details are extremely important. I want my guns to be extremely good functioning tools that I can feel confident will perfrom excellently every time I use them.
Click to expand...

It sounds like my comparison was right on. You desire a finely tuned, top end piece of equipment in your rifles, but not your vehicles. Very few of us "need" that level of performance, but there are areas that we desire it and can afford it. The Norc is like Cdn tire Mastercraft tools. I do some in depth wrench pulling for myself and have never been let down by Mastercraft, but for some, Snap On is the only way to go. Yes, they are better quality, but the price difference is far bigger than the performance difference.
 
Seafury said:
Common chinese rifle issues are, improperly indexed barrels, soft sight serations, poor sights, soft bolts, soft trigger components, garbage wood. Common M1a issues are extractor claws and a limited number of cast bolts. You will hear differently on this site only. I don't hear a fraction of the M1A bashing anywhere else.
Click to expand...
Doesn't appear wood stocked m305s are being sold anymore(garbage plastic?), and isn't the soft bolts an older issue that was taken care of?
 
there's some good thinking there...

A long time ago I was shooting the real thing -M14, TRW manufacture, baby!- and it was my preference to find again now that I'm back, but the price of accessibility is now waaay out of my ballpark... so I got an M14s, and am pretty damn pleased, thank you very much.

And what I've saved, has been spent on feeding the damn thing.

I'd add that 'maybe' the fit and finish is probably a bit nicer on the Springfield, but not to the tune of another 1600$! Christ Jeezus that's a bit o'cash...

(3" groups at 100 yards with the iron sights using handloads for the gun; works for me!)

:dancingbanana:
 
The single biggest differences between the M1A and the M305 receivers, IMHO, are:

1) Finish. Hands down, the M1A has a better surface finish as someone took the time to polish the metal, whereas the Norc retains more machining marks - original USGI receivers actually look more like the Norc than the M1A, if that matters.

2) Markings. M1A on the heel, M305 on the side of the heel.

3) Geometry. The M1A FAR too often has dimensional errors on the oprod tab cutout (often necessitating excessive fitting of the top of the oprod tab) and is sometimes not properly relieved on the receiver ledge to clear the bolt roller in full battery. Google "M1A bolt roller slap" for more info. The M305 receivers are largely in-spec dimensionally compared to the M1A.

4) Portability. An M1A can be taken to the US to shoot matches, an M305 never can as Chinese M305's are banned from import to the US, even on a temporary basis.

In terms of relative quality, I've built many match grade M14's from bare receivers and given a choice between the M1A and M305 receiver, I prefer the M305 - it's easier to build into a nice rifle. Plain and simple. If 762mmfirearms or LRB receivers were available in Canada for similar prices to what they sell for stateside, I'd favor those over the Norinco due ot superior fit and finish. Dimensionally, those receivers are closer to Norinco than M1A.

Sorry to rain on the M1A parade guys, but stateside, the M1A is considered entry level. It is the US version of Norinco, despite the inflated prices up here in Canada. "Real" M14 builders use LRB, 762mmfirearms, Fulton Armory, Smith Enterprise, etc. It's a simple fact.

Another intersting fact, SEI will build custom M14's on only a few receivers. Norinco is on their list of allowable receivers. SAI receivers are specifically mentioned as not being acceptable. That's telling.
 
Last edited:
Some M305 #### - both are Norinco receivers (actually the MCs is a Polytech) with everything else USGI on the traditional rifle (apart from the DMR match barrel) and everything but the stock is USGI on the MCS.

Both built for less than the price of an entry-level M1A, both are light years better performers than a box-stock M1A.

DSCN1848.jpg
 
Claven 2 has it right.
It takes a bit of effort and time to track down all the USGI parts but it can still be done for just over $2200 built. The norc/poly receiver is excellent and as close as it gets to a USGI spec receiver and that's a fact. Those who doubt this can call Ron Smith in Arizona and ask.

This was the rifle I had built in 2009 (with alot of help from M14 doc;))
GI on Poly receiver.

Best shooting M14 I ever owned, It did 3" at 300m with M118 LC
(and yes, I've owned several M1A's)

DSCN0575.jpg

Win2.jpg
 
J996 said:
Claven 2 has it right.
It takes a bit of effort and time to track down all the USGI parts but it can still be done for just over $2200 built. The norc/poly receiver is excellent and as close as it gets to a USGI spec receiver and that's a fact. Those who doubt this can call Ron Smith in Arizona and ask.

This was the rifle I had built in 2009 (with alot of help from M14 doc;))
GI on Poly receiver.

Best shooting M14 I ever owned, It did 3" at 300m with M118 LC
(and yes, I've owned several M1A's)

DSCN0575.jpg

Win2.jpg
Click to expand...

What kind of stock is that?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom