Different recoil spring pressure.

Pietro Beretta

Pietro Beretta

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I have a factory (Wolffs springs) 13.lbs spring on my Beretta 92. I was thinking of getting 15.lbs. Is that to much? Wolffs has 13,14,15,16,17,18,19, etc popund springs for the Beretta's.....how much is too much. I'm not shooting +P 147's, but factory WIN/REM 115/124 FMJ's.

And for my Springfield M1911-A1 "Loaded" I was thinking about getting the Wolffs spring + 10% extra pressure....would that be fine enough to cycle properly with factory 230. gr FMJ's??

Thanks.
 
The springs should be matched to the ammo you're using...
If 13LB. is stock, there isn't any advantage in going to a heavier spring, unless you are going to be shooting 'hotter' ammo.
You're asking for FTF (failure to feed) issues with too heavy a spring... i.e. the ammo isn't potent enough to fully cycle the slide...
 
Pietro Beretta said:
No, I figured that a slightly heavier spring will reduce felt recoil, and reduce some wear & tear on the gun....sort of like putting in a recoil buffer.
Click to expand...
Putting in a heavier than required spring will, unfortunately, not negate the laws of physics, but will likely lead to functioning problems!;)
 
So you can shoot hotter loads as in +P+ and not batter your gun. The recoil spring does not reduce recoil! Go back to your high school physics class. What goes forward....goes backwards. Your slide does not move until the bullet is long gone. Recoil is all over with at that point.

Stay Safe
 
Foxbat and Canuck44, I do not doubt your expertise on this matter and I'm certainly no physics professor but...I have shot my 1911 with regular loads and a 20lb recoil spring (which I was using for 45-08's) and it absolutley without a doubt SIGNIFICANTLY reduced felt recoil. It functioned flawlessly for a couple hundred rounds too. I do agree however that reducing slide speed will inevidably lead to cycling issues. As for felt recoil though.... enlighten me please.

Dave
 
Well I might as well throw my 2 cents in this argument :rolleyes:
I only have experience with my Glock 21 , nothing else .
That said ,
The Glock has a factory 17 lb recoil spring , works great .
I bought all the Glockmiester and ISMI springs I could get and tried them all .
All springs don't work with all loads .
On Glocks , if you have to light a recoil spring you must install a lighter firing pin spring !
Felt recoil is a subjective thing , some people don't mind the " crack " of a
9mm and dislike the " push " of a 45acp
With reloads I have made my 45 acp " crack " ( or snap if you like ) and
" push "
Most people who have shot my pistol prefer " push "
On my gun " push " = 230 grain and low to moderate velocity .
Back to the recoil springs .:eek:
in my gun , using the same loads if you install a heavier spring ( 19 lb ) you "feel" more recoil , using a lighter spring (15 lb ) you " feel " less recoil .
Using to light a spring will allow the slide to hammer back to fast and hard and will eventually cause damage .
Most manufactures will put a heavy enough spring in to work with all factory loads and not beat the gun to death .
If you load your own , you can tailor the spring to your load , the plus is when done right the gun will cycle quicker with less felt recoil .:)
The reason a lighter spring transmits less felt recoil is it takes less force to move the slide so less force is applied to the shooters hand .
With a heavier spring it takes more force to move the slide , this extra force is transmitted to the shooters hand .
Now feel free to shoot my experiences to pieces . :D
 
The recoil spring, regardless of it's rating, cannot change the 'force' that the
cartridge exerts when it is fired....that cannot be changed.
HOWEVER, the 'perceived' push or recoil can be altered..from a 'snap'..light
spring allowing the slide to crash back into the frame... to a 'push'...more
initial resistance, slower and less complete rearward movement of the slide...
"Recoil" is a perception...not a physical absolute...and, like grip size, trigger pull, etc., is something that shooter's have a 'preference' for....
The actual physical force that a 40 S&W cartridge exerts on a firearm is, all other things...frame size, weight, etc., being equal... 'between' an average
9MM and 45 ACP , yet a lot of shooters prefer the 9MM or 45ACP to the 40
...it all comes down to perception..an intangible combination of human
physical attributes and the immutable characteristics of force/time curves..;)
 
OkDave

Dave lets first say that BEFORE your slide starts to move and utilize your spring the bullet has left the barrel (OK it starts to move but the movement as you will see is not far before the bullet is gone) and the recoil is over. I too shoot the .45-08 cartridge and know the recoil you feel. I also know the .45-08 cartridge is going faster than a standard .45acp cartridge but the principle is the same. Here is some information you will find interesting from Major Julian S. HAtcher's book "Tesxtbook of Pistols & Revolvers"

A bullet exiting a 5" barrel travelling at 810 fps takes 1/1296 of a second or .00077 of a second. That is the time you feel the recoil. I won't bore you with the math involved but that is the time. For those with pen & paper in hand remember the exit speed of 810 fps is not the speed, start to finish, as the bullet starts at zero and you have to calculate the average speed. Obviously your .45-08 cartridge drives that same bullet much faster and the recoil will occur in even a shorter time.

The purpose of your 20# + spring is to reduce the speed of the slide as it reacts to the rearward forces exerted (for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction) of the bullet going forward. I would not suggest you try shooting the .45-08 cartridge in any gun you value with a say 10# spring but the recoil will be the same in both instances. The battering on your frame however will be significantly higher.

Gunnar had you put that heavy spring in your gun to protect the slide battering your frame not to reduce recoil. It is a case of reducing the effect of the recoil not to reduce the actual recoil.

I have friends whom I don't doubt claim they can tell the difference in recoil of two different powders driving the same bullet the same speed with different pressure curves. Well I have never challenged them to a blind test but aside from escaping gases playing a small part in the equation I seriously doubt anyone can. I say that because the actual recoil takes place in such a very short time.

When you here of one load recoiling less than another remember it is likely due to the fact either the bullet weighs more or less and or the velocity achieved is different. Old Prof. Newton of apple fame was right and physics is physics. Unless it doesn't involve math and more physics don't ask another question on this cause I hated physics in school - to damm exact for me and I still do....Mr. Marcellus physic class was a very longtime ago but I have a reasonably good memory.

I should add the reason you don't go flying off at 810 fps or worse yet your gun returns to you at the same spped is because the gun weighs more than your bullet. Please don't ask me to do the math.:)


Edit: Foxbat you posted your post while I was typing mine. Felt recoil is a subjective sensation to the actual recoil which I assure you is absolute and calcuable. In the case described above the recoil amounts to 2,225 pounds. This force lasts for the time indicated which is fortunate you would agree.
Stay Safe
 
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Foxbat wrote:

The recoil spring, regardless of it's rating, cannot change the 'force' that the
cartridge exerts when it is fired....that cannot be changed.
HOWEVER, the 'perceived' push or recoil can be altered..from a 'snap'..light
spring allowing the slide to crash back into the frame... to a 'push'...more
initial resistance, slower and less complete rearward movement of the slide...
"Recoil" is a perception...not a physical absolute...and, like grip size, trigger pull, etc., is something that shooter's have a 'preference' for....
The actual physical force that a 40 S&W cartridge exerts on a firearm is, all other things...frame size, weight, etc., being equal... 'between' an average
9MM and 45 ACP , yet a lot of shooters prefer the 9MM or 45ACP to the 40
...it all comes down to perception..an intangible combination of human
physical attributes and the immutable characteristics of force/time curves..
Click to expand...


Well put Foxbat, scientifically you are correct.



But Pietro was looking to reduce percieved recoil, and that's likely what swapping to a heavier spring will do.

Pietro Beretta wrote:
I figured that a slightly heavier spring will reduce felt recoil, and reduce some wear & tear on the gun....sort of like putting in a recoil buffer.
Click to expand...

So why not try the 15lb spring? It's not going to hurt the gun, it's not exactly a big investment and you just might like the way it feels. If you get stovepipes, set it aside for later when you get some cheap surplus +p ammo.

Dave
 
OkDave

Pereceived or real, recoil cannot be reduced by the recoil spring.

Not it's function. Going to a heavier spring may cause stove pipes as you suggest and also can impact the notch where your slide stop engages the slide. Don't ask how I know but it can from experience. This will happen if the slide does not reach it's maximum rearward movement.

Foxbat the recoil spring cannot effect recoil and your suggestion about pushing and shoving and snapping is not true, the recoil is over before the slide starts to move. How then can it affect recoil?

Stay Safe
 
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OkDave

"Well put Foxbat, scientifically you are correct."

Nope. If the recoil is over berfore the slide begins to move how can the recoil spring effect the amount of recoil.:rolleyes:

Stay Safe
 
Canuck44 wrote:

I would not suggest you try shooting the .45-08 cartridge in any gun you value with a say 10# spring but the recoil will be the same in both instances. The battering on your frame however will be significantly higher.
Click to expand...

All physics and mind blowing math aside though fellas we are talking about percieved recoil. That is what this thread is all about.

Not to get into a pissing match here but there is no way 45-08 is going to have the same felt recoil with a 10lb spring as with a 20lb.

Dave
 
Dave no pissing contest here. Read my last post. The recoil, felt, real or imagined cannot be affected by something that has done nothing until the recoil is over. And to answer your question the recoil will be the same.

Stay Safe
 
Recoil (Perception thereof) is a combination of forces...reaction to the bullet's forward movement as well as the slide's movement (in reaction)...
There is no question that the perception of the event can be altered by the
weight of the recoil spring..try this yourself... use the same gun, same load..
different weight spring...light..slide smashes into the frame..empty case flies 30 feet..... heavier... empty drops at your feet..
You can't change the total area under the force/time curve but by using a different spring, but you can certainly alter the perception.....
 
Jeesus you guys type fast! Two posts have appeared while I was typing. Well I'm not prepared to argue this one any further as I only have my own experiences and no real data to back myself. So here is where I am leaving it: If either of you fellas find yourselves In my neck of the woods, call me up and we'll go shooting. I have assorted ammo and recoil springs up the wazzoo. Loser buys the beer. Skip it... I will buy the beer reguardless.

Dave
 
OkDave said:
Jeesus you guys type fast! Two posts have appeared while I was typing. Well I'm not prepared to argue this one any further as I only have my own experiences and no real data to back myself. So here is where I am leaving it: If either of you fellas find yourselves In my neck of the woods, call me up and we'll go shooting. I have assorted ammo and recoil springs up the wazzoo. Loser buys the beer. Skip it... I will buy the beer reguardless.

Dave
Click to expand...
Agreed! You're on...:D
 
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