I could be mistaken, but doesn't LMT have current US Mil contracts? Lots of other guys besdies HK have large scale mil contracts for AR's... Colt and FN come to mind.
EDIT: nevermind - I just realized you were talking piston guns only.
Discussion of Value for Dollar of HK products.
- Thread starter HazeMK
- Start date
I could be mistaken, but doesn't LMT have current US Mil contracts? Lots of other guys besdies HK have large scale mil contracts for AR's... Colt and FN come to mind.
EDIT: nevermind - I just realized you were talking piston guns only.
Claven2,
Sorry don't know who you are talking about:
GSG-9 Glock
GIGN Glock
JTF-2 Sig
SAS (UK) Sig
Seals Sig + HK
5th SFG Glock
KSK HK
Sek Sig + Glock
Belgian Glock
Greek Glock
Cobra Glock
Now the Swiss, Glock + Sig
Nearly all domestic Canadian Tactical Units: Glock, Sig (Even RCMP ERT now Sig again, shortly...the old guys never gave them up in some cases).
We haven't even gone to eastern Europe where Glock and Sig are prevalent.
Asia, same thing.......
Sorry don't know who you are talking about:
GSG-9 Glock
GIGN Glock
JTF-2 Sig
SAS (UK) Sig
Seals Sig + HK
5th SFG Glock
KSK HK
Sek Sig + Glock
Belgian Glock
Greek Glock
Cobra Glock
Now the Swiss, Glock + Sig
Nearly all domestic Canadian Tactical Units: Glock, Sig (Even RCMP ERT now Sig again, shortly...the old guys never gave them up in some cases).
We haven't even gone to eastern Europe where Glock and Sig are prevalent.
Asia, same thing.......
Well last check Glock 22+Sig P226 40S&W are the standard issue pistol for approx 75% of police in Canada. In the states, It seems Glock and S&W M&P took the most share.
To be honest as much as I love H&K, the only reason they survive is because they go after UK, Germany, and US Gov't contract. The Bundeswehr (German Army) even go so much to veto the adoption of 5.7X28mm (because they use H&K MP7 that fire 4.6X30 a rival of PDW round)
Back to original question, is it worth it? Yes and no.
If you can afford to buy one, then probably is. If you can't afford it you can complain about H&K.
On a note, its funny how every single small arms in German army, navy and airforce are made by H&K. They're not going to run out of business anytime soon.
angrysoldier
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- under your bed
alittle of topic, but i had the chance to handle a real hk g36. it felt cheap and had alot of moving mass that made it not as accurate as i was hoping for. hk does not offer much in the way of after sales support. just my 2 cents and what the heck do i know?
themarauder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Just north of Toronto, thankfully.
Lasers are so 1980s. They've upgraded to Glock. I hear the Empire is looking at getting rid of their outdated laser guns as well.Greek? I thought they used Gyros.
Cobra? I thought they used red lasers and G.I. Joe used blue lasers.
Knowing is half the battle!
The new H&K marketing campaign? "If you can afford a Deathstar, you can afford H&K!"
There are a lot of obvious and legitimate reasons why HK costs what it does, and very few have been mentioned in this thread...Many of these reasons are not in HK hands to do #### all about. Service for HK parts depends, if you are complaining about parts for a G36 that has more to do with the fact civilians are not suppose to be able to purchase them in the first place. This has to do with the political climate in Germany and laws.....HK can not get around that.........Currency exchange of the Euro also, overseas shipping, lots of paper work...
No buddy complains about KAC?
It is a BS argument right across the board.....Just be happy you have some access to their product lines, if you Anti-HKites want to complain about something, then start complaining about how Colt Canada cannot legally sell it's rifle to Canadians, forget about complaining to HK and there countries laws, look inside this nation.
No buddy complains about KAC?
It is a BS argument right across the board.....Just be happy you have some access to their product lines, if you Anti-HKites want to complain about something, then start complaining about how Colt Canada cannot legally sell it's rifle to Canadians, forget about complaining to HK and there countries laws, look inside this nation.
I have to disagree about the G36. I've owned four of them and shot 1000s of rounds. Accurate, light, easy to maneuver, and very reliable. The best combat rifle in the world according to many sources. Parts can be sourced if you are tenacious and thorough in your efforts.
My G36C is my favorite gun of all time.
The g36 is designed as a cheap rifle for a conscript army, which is the German army in the 90's. It is functional rifle for a big army. No matter how you cut it, it is designed as a cheap rifle that can be made quickly. The xm8 was offered as the same price as m4....like 600 bucks a copy?
The great thing about g36 is that is cheap to make in volume, and it is quite a reliable design with reasonable durability. Nothing wrong with that at all. Hk did a good job for what It is asked to do and make a lot of money.
The great thing about g36 is that is cheap to make in volume, and it is quite a reliable design with reasonable durability. Nothing wrong with that at all. Hk did a good job for what It is asked to do and make a lot of money.
mebiuspower
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Morontario
I'm here for the koolaid. Pass me the bottle.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
+1 Indeed! Since no one else has mentioned it... "The gun that killed Bin Laden" (HK416). I guess if it's good enough for the SEALS...
USMC Scout Snipers: M1911 by Colt.
US ARMY Rangers and Delta: Beretta M9A1
Navy SEALS: S&W K Frames (mission dependent)
Republic of Taiwan SWAT and Counter-terror: Steyr M
Pakistani SF: Steyr M
US DEA SWAT: S&W M&P
Just sayin'... Glock and SIG are not the only game in town, though I would not argue that they aren't great choices.
Oh, and PS, All the CF also uses the Browning HP more than anything else. For the most part, only JTF2, Submariner Force Protection details and Navy Boarders are using SIG. The Submariners also use HK in the form of the MP5.
- Location
- South of your border
I wish the HK SL8-6 was cheaper...
Pot this is kettle, over.
The SR-15 is no where near good value for money either.
If one is going to pay a premium for stuff that is hard to obtain, at least the MR223's fit and finish is superior to the Knight's (assuming one cares about that in the first place).
TheGamerXxX
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- North of the 49, Manitoba
Im with majority.
If you can afford it (and you're abrand name sucka) then get a HK (like myself heh), if you want to afford other stuff stay with mainstream(you'll find more 'cheaper' parts if needed)
HK is priced decently, it's just the markup we suffer in NorthAmerica that shoots it up upwards of 2K+
Is the MR223/416 a decent rifle? Yes. Worth every penny? Probably not when compared to higher end ARs. Will it last a lifetime... probably. Would I own one? In a heart beat.
It's like saying "I drive a Camaro" as opposed to "I drive a Ferrari"... one is common and good, the other is high end and expensive.
And yeah I think CarbineOne is right. for Value I dunno.
And yeah the finish/quality control is better on HKs for sure (well other then the picture with the bullets reversed heh)
Luke
If you can afford it (and you're abrand name sucka) then get a HK (like myself heh), if you want to afford other stuff stay with mainstream(you'll find more 'cheaper' parts if needed)
HK is priced decently, it's just the markup we suffer in NorthAmerica that shoots it up upwards of 2K+
Is the MR223/416 a decent rifle? Yes. Worth every penny? Probably not when compared to higher end ARs. Will it last a lifetime... probably. Would I own one? In a heart beat.
It's like saying "I drive a Camaro" as opposed to "I drive a Ferrari"... one is common and good, the other is high end and expensive.
And yeah I think CarbineOne is right. for Value I dunno.
And yeah the finish/quality control is better on HKs for sure (well other then the picture with the bullets reversed heh)
Luke
Claven2,
Whatever, we're talking about SF and Tactical / SWAT units. Marine Snipers are not SF, neither is the masses of the Canadian Forces.
The general issue pistol of the Seals is the Sig P226 and now the HK 45 compact, do they have other weapons in inventory? Yes, but their main guns are P226.
The fact of the matter is that the dominant weapons in use by World Wide SF and Tactical units are the Sig, Glock and HK. Will you find excepitons, yes but the fact remains that these are the dominant weapons.
Back to the original topic;
World Wide we see the top units using Colt, HK, Swiss Arms, when they have a choice.
Quality control is better with HK, Swiss Arms, Colt (Canada and Colt Defense) KAC, LMT and a few others. Those who put their life on the line don't buy cheaper makes like Olympic Arms or whatever. That said some of those guns a just fine for sporting and range use.
The Gentleman who asked the question just wanted a few answers and I hoped I steered him in the right direction (I'd like him to shoot lots, so whatever he can afford with ammo is best).
I fully expect you to search the internet and find some more Tactical Teams using something other than the dominant 3 handguns and list them here.
PS: CAG has a lot of pistols besides the Beretta M9.
Rich
Whatever, we're talking about SF and Tactical / SWAT units. Marine Snipers are not SF, neither is the masses of the Canadian Forces.
The general issue pistol of the Seals is the Sig P226 and now the HK 45 compact, do they have other weapons in inventory? Yes, but their main guns are P226.
The fact of the matter is that the dominant weapons in use by World Wide SF and Tactical units are the Sig, Glock and HK. Will you find excepitons, yes but the fact remains that these are the dominant weapons.
Back to the original topic;
World Wide we see the top units using Colt, HK, Swiss Arms, when they have a choice.
Quality control is better with HK, Swiss Arms, Colt (Canada and Colt Defense) KAC, LMT and a few others. Those who put their life on the line don't buy cheaper makes like Olympic Arms or whatever. That said some of those guns a just fine for sporting and range use.
The Gentleman who asked the question just wanted a few answers and I hoped I steered him in the right direction (I'd like him to shoot lots, so whatever he can afford with ammo is best).
I fully expect you to search the internet and find some more Tactical Teams using something other than the dominant 3 handguns and list them here.
PS: CAG has a lot of pistols besides the Beretta M9.
Rich
The CF uses the Hi Power because we don't have the funds to outfit and retrain every member who may require a sidearm. We also used the Iltis when the US was using the HMMVW. "What army is using what" is not a great scale to judge effectiveness.
PS: Funny how the latest CP course required any CF member who applied to have plenty of experience with the Sig. Must be just JTF guys applying...
Original Poster: IMHO, the H&K MR223 is overpriced. This rifle is different from the HK416, and has a different purpose. This in no way reflects on the HK416, which happens to carry a price tag a lot lower than the MR223.
Look at it this way...
A Ferrari is overpriced. It's not like you can legally drive 220mph in Canada, it only seats 2, and is going to be in the shop for awhile for standard fixes. But it does look pretty cool, draws chicks in, and you can brag about it.
A Honda Civic is a way better way to go, it will go as fast you need it to, carry 5 people, is easily repaired, and is a helluva lot cheaper.
Transfer that over to rifles...
The H&K MR223... you're never going to fire full auto, or suppressed. You will not be able to find spare parts if anything goes wrong, warranty is going to be next to non-existent. You will not be engaging armed threats beyond the scope of a silhouette target or xbox. BUT! You can take cool hi res pics and post them on Gunnutz, and be Johnny cool at the range. As for drawing chicks in, guns are not a great way to do that.
Any normal "AR-15" (Armalite, Stag, DPMS, etc.) will be interchangeable with anything else out there, and most companies usually have a pretty good warranty setup... even in Canada. They will function almost flawlessly for what you need it for. They are still very reliable, even in "high threat environments"
. You will save about 3k to put towards cool guy accessories or lots of ammo. BUT! You will be just like everybody else on the internet.
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Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
IMHO HK products are definitely high end, but not high value. If you want high value, buy a Norinco. If you want a truly superb AR, buy an HK.
