Discussion Why 308 and not NEW

6MT said:
That's where the fun factor rises. Yes, it can be frustrating. But wind teaches us things that the calm cannot.
Click to expand...

Oh it's not frustrating, the 6.5 just bucks the wind better. I am still having lots of fun with .308 but will eventually torque on a .260 barrel down the road.
 
J996 said:
Has anyone mentioned wind yet? That is where the 308 gets beat by the 6.5 calibers, wind drift.
Click to expand...

So with that being said, and in the spirit of the OQ, why do so many people build the custom 308 then? Not using it to hunt, so take down isn't a factor... and lets say inside 1000 yards accuracy rig, wind drift would be a BIG deal , no?



6MT , you have 4 percision rifles in this caliber? Why? can you explain your choice. Why didn't you choose a different caliber?
 
Xikarzr said:
So with that being said, and in the spirit of the OQ, why do so many people build the custom 308 then? Not using it to hunt, so take down isn't a factor... and lets say inside 1000 yards accuracy rig, wind drift would be a BIG deal , no?



6MT , you have 4 percision rifles in this caliber? Why? can you explain your choice. Why didn't you choose a different caliber?
Click to expand...

Well, I thought I did. Precision/repeatability, cost, available choices in ammo, available choices in barrels, ....and on and on. Also, how many ranges go out beyond 1000m? Really?

I guess it's my "I've been around the block a few times" mentality. Cost vs enjoyment vs availabilty. To each thier own.
 
Xikarzr said:
So with that being said, and in the spirit of the OQ, why do so many people build the custom 308 then? Not using it to hunt, so take down isn't a factor... and lets say inside 1000 yards accuracy rig, wind drift would be a BIG deal , no?



6MT , you have 4 percision rifles in this caliber? Why? can you explain your choice. Why didn't you choose a different caliber?
Click to expand...

Because people have a hard time leaving there special happy comfort zone. 308 works.

Why change?





Cuz there's better calibers!
 
6MT said:
Well, I thought I did. Precision/repeatability, cost, available choices in ammo, available choices in barrels, ....and on and on. Also, how many ranges go out beyond 1000m? Really?

I guess it's my "I've been around the block a few times" mentality. Cost vs enjoyment vs availabilty. To each thier own.
Click to expand...

Thats all Valid 6MT... not knocking you for having 308. Im building a discussion and in turn, learning.
 
Xikarzr said:
So with that being said, and in the spirit of the OQ, why do so many people build the custom 308 then? Not using it to hunt, so take down isn't a factor... and lets say inside 1000 yards accuracy rig, wind drift would be a BIG deal , no?
Click to expand...

.308 is the most widespread cartridge for precision shooting in North america and it was the standard cartridge of nato for a long time, therefore it has a long history in match shooting.

The 6.5 has always been popular in Europe. Only in the last decade have the Americans caught on to the 6.5 and we now have very high bc bullets for them (Berger, Lapua and Sierra).

6.5's continue to grow in popularity and we now have the .260, 6.5 creed and 6.5x47 In addition to the old 6.5x55 swede.
Availability of factory ammo is low compared to the .308 which is well established.
 
Xikarzr said:
I was a little hesident to mention this as well.... Flat should be more accurate no? Faster is flatter longer , no?
Click to expand...

No. Every bullet drops at the same rate. It's not "flatter longer" it just covers more distance. Example, take a 7x57 with a 139gr. bullet and a 7mm RemMag with a 165gr. bullet. Both have a velocity of 3000ft/s and both with drop at the same rate. Yet, the 7mm Rem Mag is considered a "flatter shooter" when compared to the 7x57. Food for thought.

Edit: I know, this example doesn't equate ballistic coefficient.
 
supahdave said:
Flatter is not more accurate. If you throw a rock fast or slow in different trajectories, if they land on the exact same spot is any method of delivering that rock to the target more accurate? If you know the ballistics of your round, and are able to calculate and compensate for wind, spindrift, drop etc and have good consistent hand loads and do your part to be a consistent shooter, the bullet will arrive reliably on target every time, who cares HOW it gets there.

lets look at 3006 vs 308, they are very much alike. However the 308 is on average TWICE as accurate as 3006, which has MORE velocity, and so is slightly flatter. Using the logic, flatter faster more accurate is flawed. When you hear "308 is more inherently accurate" it really is. Why inherent? Because it's a shorter cartridge with LESS AIR gap. The powder burns more evenly and efficiently in a 308 case than it does in a 3006 or 270. With a bit less powder you also have less recoil which makes you less likely to get thrown off during recoil and takes more human error out of the equation.

If your worried about lack of killing power for hunting purposes which is the argument made for the hotter, taller magnum belted cartridges, 308 will take down pretty much anything on this side of the world that you'd need to shoot, and do it up to distances that you don't need to be trying to kill anything further than. If you want to kill something your going to get in as close as possible, too many factors when your hunting to try and pull off a 900+yard hero shot just cause your sporting a 338 lapua and want bragging rights.
Click to expand...
You are completely off the deep end on many of your points. I stopped reading when you said a 308 is twice as accurate as a 30-06 is. Complete hogwash. When you start to use the words "air gap" in ballistics, I feel even more sadness towards this thread. I'm out.
 
Xikarzr said:
So with that being said, and in the spirit of the OQ, why do so many people build the custom 308 then? Not using it to hunt, so take down isn't a factor... and lets say inside 1000 yards accuracy rig, wind drift would be a BIG deal , no?
Click to expand...

It is a big deal, that's why F classers are shooting the heavy 6.5s and 7 mm's.

To be blunt, the .308 win offers almost nothing that can't be eclipsed by many other calibres out there. I call it a lazy underachiever.
Most of the 6mm, 6.5mm and 7mm calibres out there(especially the more "flavor of the week" calibres) are faster, flatter and less affected by wind drift than the .308 by a considerable margin. Barrel life is the only benefit to a .308 over most of these others and barrel life has never impressed me.

I have owned 3 different .308s and I will never own one again. When you have fast, accurate 6, 6.5, 7 and 338s in the safe...your .308 will rarely see the light of day, if ever. IMO there is NO reason to go with a .308. If I wanted more of a "challenge" I'd buy a slingshot.
 
ivo said:
It is a big deal, that's why F classers are shooting the heavy 6.5s and 7 mm's.

To be blunt, the .308 win offers almost nothing that can't be eclipsed by many other calibres out there. I call it a lazy underachiever.
Most of the 6mm, 6.5mm and 7mm calibres out there(especially the more "flavor of the week" calibres) are faster, flatter and less affected by wind drift than the .308 by a considerable margin. Barrel life is the only benefit to a .308 over most of these others and barrel life has never impressed me.

I have owned 3 different .308s and I will never own one again. When you have fast, accurate 6, 6.5, 7 and 338s in the safe...your .308 will rarely see the light of day, if ever. IMO there is NO reason to go with a .308. If I wanted more of a "challenge" I'd buy a slingshot.
Click to expand...


Very interesting comments. Thanks.
 
Xikarzr said:
I am not aware of that new Berger bullet as I do not reload now, but looking at noslers new LR long range 150 grain ammo, a BC on the 270 short mag of .625 is really interesting. This defiantly puts sonic range out there.... Reason I'm asking these questions, is I'm likely going to build a long range rig in the future and seem to be pushed to use 308 ... weather I wan to or not has not been determined.
Click to expand...

Will you be taking up reloading? I think that would be a big deciding factor. If you want factory ammo that is reasonably priced and regularly available 308 is a great option. If your interested in putting in more work and building a load there are some great other options. As mentioned 7mm and 6.5 calibres are very popular. You will have a harder time finding components and you'll have to put in more effort. How much effort are you willing to put in?
 
In my group of off-the-rifle-range, way out in the bush LR shooters, we affectionately dub .308's .. "mortars".
This nickname originates from the neccesity to trim shooting lane tree branches at MRT sooo much higher up than 6.5mm or .338 will require for same yardage.
That said, on any given day it may be a mortar that takes home all the marbles out to 1000 .... unless that is .... the wind gets too vigorous.
I do know that my mortar-shooting buds screw on new barrels half as often as my 6.5x55 rig asks for.

But ohh!, do do we laugh when a mortar takes down pine needles instead of steel ....
 
Last edited:
Im just guessing here, but I would think the fact 308 has its own class (along with 223, which both just *happen* to be the standards for nato and many police forces) would help keep 308 at the top. That way people can use one rifle to compete in both classes?


Also, on the note of "accurate calibers" I dont buy it. No caliber is inherently more accurate than another, it all has to do with how the particular gun is set up. On average, A 308 savage axis wont shoot better than a Sako in 30-06, regardless of which you might think is the more accurate cartridge. Its all a matter of how all the pieces fit together - barrel quality, action quality, bullet quality, powder/brass/primer quality, ect ect. Not to mention all those things reloaders deal with - neck tension, seating depth, ect ect... The one aspect that I could see making a difference is how high of a ballistic coefficient you can get in a good bullet - if you can only get .525 BC bullets in a 308, but you can get .675 BC bullets in 264cal, then obviously the 264 would be inherently more accurate. (I know these numbers dont represent the facts, they are just random numbers to illustrate a point) And a slower bullet is not "More accurate", any bullet shot at a very consistent velocity will be accurate.
 
Put it this way, the only reason a person would shoot a .308 in "competition" would be because the rules necesitate it. Otherwise you are giving away too much to far more capable cartridges to remain competitive.
Spend enough time behind a .308 and you begin to understand it has its limitations when it comes to LR shooting. It is a superbly accurate chambering but simply does not have the capacity to push the heavy for caliber (high bc) bullets fast enough.
I have shot mine out to 1mile and everything in between. I consider it an effective 800m chambering. My 6.5x55 that launches 140gr VLD's at a very modest 2590fps is far more effective at 1000m than any load I have for my .308's.

Maybe it has "less air gap" or something like that LOL! ;)
 
Last edited:
Kosmic said:
A bullet that's in the air the longest will get affected more with wind, no?
Click to expand...

Nope. A lighter bullet will drift less than a heavier bullet of the same caliber, and that heavier bullet will spend more time airborne because it'll have a slower muzzle velocity.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom