DIY auto trickler project (hooked up to balance beam scale)

Hey bertn, there's no difference between the sensor you used (that you call NO) and the one you linked to (the one you call NC). Both are E3S-G30E4, which are chinese knock off of Omron E3S-G3E4 (you can check the datasheet here: https://downloads.omron.eu/IAB/Prod...els/E3S-G/E036/E036-E1-02+E3S-G+Datasheet.pdf), and there's no NC in photosensors like you can have relays that are normally open or close. You can either get an NPN version which will sink current (it's the one you got with suffix -E4) or a PNP version that will source current (suffix -B4). You can use an NPN to source current too but it's only like 2-3mA, which is not enough to energize the coil of a relay (it's enough for a semiconductor). You can also switch between light-ON and dark-ON by switching polarity on the brown and blue wires. The guy on ebay is probably just trying to grab a few extra bucks by selling the same thing. It's typical of those knock-off, they exagerate the specs to make their stuff look better (both input voltages and sink current are all over the place if you look at ebay sellers, real values are 12-24VDC and 80mA).

In order to do what you want to do in this diagram you'd need a PNP sensor and the circuit would need to be a bit different. You could get a PNP, but there's no chinese knock-off and the real omron are kind of expensive (~50$). The way you made it with 2 relays is the right way.

Nowaday you'd use darlingtons (something like DS2003), SS relays or plain transistors instead of magnetic relays, cause they have much longer life and cost less during mass production (which is obviously not a concern here :)). If you use the tiny relays in your first picture, make sure you place a diod on the coil (something like 1N4007) so current spikes don't destroy it too quickly.


Do you use the screw on the left to adjust the height of the sensor?
 
Hey bertn, there's no difference between the sensor you used (that you call NO) and the one you linked to (the one you call NC). Both are E3S-G30E4, which are chinese knock off of Omron E3S-G3E4 (you can check the datasheet here: https://downloads.omron.eu/IAB/Prod...els/E3S-G/E036/E036-E1-02+E3S-G+Datasheet.pdf), and there's no NC in photosensors like you can have relays that are normally open or close. You can either get an NPN version which will sink current (it's the one you got with suffix -E4) or a PNP version that will source current (suffix -B4). You can use an NPN to source current too but it's only like 2-3mA, which is not enough to energize the coil of a relay (it's enough for a semiconductor). You can also switch between light-ON and dark-ON by switching polarity on the brown and blue wires. The guy on ebay is probably just trying to grab a few extra bucks by selling the same thing. It's typical of those knock-off, they exagerate the specs to make their stuff look better (both input voltages and sink current are all over the place if you look at ebay sellers, real values are 12-24VDC and 80mA).

In order to do what you want to do in this diagram you'd need a PNP sensor and the circuit would need to be a bit different. You could get a PNP, but there's no chinese knock-off and the real omron are kind of expensive (~50$). The way you made it with 2 relays is the right way.

Nowaday you'd use darlingtons (something like DS2003), SS relays or plain transistors instead of magnetic relays, cause they have much longer life and cost less during mass production (which is obviously not a concern here :)). If you use the tiny relays in your first picture, make sure you place a diod on the coil (something like 1N4007) so current spikes don't destroy it too quickly.


Do you use the screw on the left to adjust the height of the sensor?

Thanks for chiming in Vinny,
since you obviously have way more knowledge of this stuff than me.

I read another omron datasheet for the whole product group and the different suffixes mean; b4 = NO, b2 = NC and b42 = NO+NC (4 wire)

Found another one that claims to be NO + NC and a pnp type
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PC-E3S-G...289087?hash=item2a42db36bf:g:KQ4AAOSwxH1UADaa
photo shows only 3 wires so that is weird. I might just order it and if they send the wrong one I'll claim a refund.

Thanks for the diode advice. I have one so will put it in and add it to the schematic.

The treaded rod/screw is indeed the height adjustment. There is a fifth magnet on the bottom of the sensor that sticks to the
metal tab that's riding the treaded rod. The two nuts at the top of the rod are there as a makeshift knob.
This way I can slide the sensor by turning the knob.
It only works good for pulling the sensor up. When it needs to go down I unscrew knob a tiny bit and then push the sensor down.
 
that's great, but I think you may need to adapt some kind of sealed bearings to the trickler.
otherwise the second most expensive part of the device will wear the fastest.

I'll deal with this when I get there.

Maybe the bearings in my daughters fidget spinner are the right size :evil:
The spinner fad is already over ;)
 
Thanks for chiming in Vinny,
since you obviously have way more knowledge of this stuff than me.

I read another omron datasheet for the whole product group and the different suffixes mean; b4 = NO, b2 = NC and b42 = NO+NC (4 wire)

Found another one that claims to be NO + NC and a pnp type
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PC-E3S-G...289087?hash=item2a42db36bf:g:KQ4AAOSwxH1UADaa
photo shows only 3 wires so that is weird. I might just order it and if they send the wrong one I'll claim a refund.

Thanks for the diode advice. I have one so will put it in and add it to the schematic.

The treaded rod/screw is indeed the height adjustment. There is a fifth magnet on the bottom of the sensor that sticks to the
metal tab that's riding the treaded rod. The two nuts at the top of the rod are there as a makeshift knob.
This way I can slide the sensor by turning the knob.
It only works good for pulling the sensor up. When it needs to go down I unscrew knob a tiny bit and then push the sensor down.

There are all sorts out there. I have run across pnp npn, usually used with plcs. Then there are the no/nc ones used for simple controls.
 
Thanks for chiming in Vinny,
since you obviously have way more knowledge of this stuff than me.

I read another omron datasheet for the whole product group and the different suffixes mean; b4 = NO, b2 = NC and b42 = NO+NC (4 wire)

Found another one that claims to be NO + NC and a pnp type
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PC-E3S-G...289087?hash=item2a42db36bf:g:KQ4AAOSwxH1UADaa
photo shows only 3 wires so that is weird. I might just order it and if they send the wrong one I'll claim a refund.

Thanks for the diode advice. I have one so will put it in and add it to the schematic.

The treaded rod/screw is indeed the height adjustment. There is a fifth magnet on the bottom of the sensor that sticks to the
metal tab that's riding the treaded rod. The two nuts at the top of the rod are there as a makeshift knob.
This way I can slide the sensor by turning the knob.
It only works good for pulling the sensor up. When it needs to go down I unscrew knob a tiny bit and then push the sensor down.

According to the picture it's again the same E3S-GS30E4.

The sensors made NO or NC will need 4 wires and the NO+NC will have 5. Inside they are built with a sensor similar to the one you used and relay, usually a solid state. So quite often they would be the same but more expensive than what you have built, especially if you got your relay for free by pulling it out of old electronic.
 
Now all you need is to rig a powder dump on top of the scale to dump some powder when you press the switch.

Hahaha, don't give me any more ideas!
No seriously that won't happen, I'm not that lazy

Lo and behold the ebay motor speed controller arrived today:dancingbanana:
So I already build it in the box, together with the two diodes and really like the motor speed adjustment feature!!
 
Not really. Usually $8 for shipping and if you order before noonish, you get it next day.

hello sir,
what would be the use of such sensor?
to sense the powder particle?
I'm newbie to reloading, and as well as tinkerer and electronic newbie too.....mmmmm picked up too many hobbies in a very sort time....:)
 
Would take tghe place of the yellow sensor on op's original pictures

Oh, Okay. I got it.
I have dozen of this type of sensors.
working in automation, product has sensing papers and carbon ribbons....
lot of replacements of assembly to scraps and I recycle them... :)

following this project!! seems very interesting!
Thanks for your info!
 
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