DIY bullet CBTO tool

MattE93

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I am working up a load for .270 win right now and want to get my CBTO fairly consistent. I don’t have any comparators and don’t have the time right now to machine one up. I had an idea for a makeshift one but wanted to see if my idea would be sufficient or if I am out to lunch. My COAL is varying by around 6 thou due to the soft points I am using. I had an idea to place a 7mm socket on the bullet to use as a comparator. My CBTO is only varying by 1 thou now so this seems to work but maybe my thinking is off. Does this seem to be a fair measurement to make? The socket contacts the bullet a little below the ogive as shown in the pic

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Cheers!! It’s slightly hard to be consistent, getting the tool with case perfectly square in the caliper but seems to give much more consistent measurements than the bullet tip
 
As an update, while this may not be the best method. My CBTO using it varies by .0005 inches or a half thou, while my COAL varies by .004 or 4 thou, so this seems quite accurate
 
COAL measurements really are only important if you're restricted in length for magazine feeding. Case base to o-give is the only accurate measurement you need. BTW, my margin of error for CBTO is .0005". So you're doing great!

And I agree with the earlier poster, you've just reinvented the wheel.

No. He found a cheaper wheel. That is useful info. Lots of readers will already have that tool.
 
I like this too because sockets are easy to find in a variety of diameters for most bullet sizes.

Now if I hadn’t dropped my dial calipers and knocked them out of zero lol

I worked up 40 rounds the other day and with this tool I got a variance of .0008”, measuring base to tip got me variance of .040
 
FYI when you do have time to make one the Hornady #6-27 .277 cal comparator ID is 0.266" using my micrometer (I don't have pin gauges that size).

As long as you are fairly close to the ogive then using the same socket each time should give you the info you need and be just as accurate....
 
There is a circle about halfway through these sockets, not sure if they are all like this. You can see a faint mark on the rounds where the socket made contact

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Looks like you could use a slightly bigger diameter gauge. Is the next size up too big?

Ideally you want to be close to the full bullet diameter. Bore diameter would be perfect.

being a cheap old fart, I made my gauge from a barrel scrap.

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Ask your gunsmith to dice up an old barrel.
 
I’ll give the next size up a try and see where it lands. This should still work for my purpose though no?

I used a once fired, unsized, but crimped case. I seated a bullet just enough so it grabbed. I then chambered this dummy round so the lands pushed the bullet into the case. I did this 10 times and took and average of the length using the gauge above. I then subtracted .02” from this measurement as a starting depth for my bullets.
 
Since you did it 10 times, that is probably a good number. Problem is that the bullet might pull out a bit when you unload.

If it is easy to remove the extractor (like on a Savage) take it off and then just push the round out with a cleaning rod.

When I start making a new load, I just load the bullet long and chamber it. Then seat the bullet a bit deeper and repeat until the marks stop.

Then I use the tool to measure where the ogive is and that number gets used for future loads and different bullets. But this is why your tool needs to be a bit bigger, so it measure more where the ogive shoulder is.
 
Since you did it 10 times, that is probably a good number. Problem is that the bullet might pull out a bit when you unload.

If it is easy to remove the extractor (like on a Savage) take it off and then just push the round out with a cleaning rod.

When I start making a new load, I just load the bullet long and chamber it. Then seat the bullet a bit deeper and repeat until the marks stop.

Then I use the tool to measure where the ogive is and that number gets used for future loads and different bullets. But this is why your tool needs to be a bit bigger, so it measure more where the ogive shoulder is.

The first time I went looking for the lands in a rifle barrel, I built something similar to the Hornady OAL tool. Complete with a case fired in that rifle. A lot of machine work, time, and trial and error.
The next time around (different calibre) I did what Ganderite just described, seating a bullet long in a dummy round and gradually going deeper until I had no more rifling marks in the Sharpie coating on the bullet.

With the bolt out of the rifle entirely, I simply pushed an empty resized case (no bullet) firmly into the chamber with a fingertip to get a feel for what the shoulder bottoming out in the chamber felt like.
Then I added a long-seated Sharpie-coloured bullet in the case, again pressing it into the chamber by hand. Very different feel, with no slap at the end since the case doesn't touch the shoulder of the chamber. I needed a cleaning rod to get the case out, the bullet was slightly stuck in the lands, evidenced by the equally spaced marks on it.
Then I seated 0.005" deeper and tried again. Repeated until there were no more marks on the bullet, and I was back to the same feel I had with the empty case alone. Very firm stop at the end, almost a slap, rather than a slightly yielding sensation as the lands start to bite into the bullet.
I don't know what it would feel like on a well- used rifle with a worn throat, this rifle was brand new, never fired.
I concluded I was within 0.005 of the lands, and tried closing the bolt as a final test on a fresh dummy round seated to the same depth. No marks were evident on the bullet.
Since I prefer "jump" to "jam", I adjusted my seating die 0.015" shorter to get between 0.015"-0.020" of "jump" and called it a day. 900 rounds later, I've had no problems and excellent accuracy.
I'm not suggesting anyone try this, just telling a story. If anyone sees a problem with my approach to finding the lands, I'm all ears. I'm old, but not too old to learn.

The Sinclair comparator nuts are a great idea if you have a way to accurately bore the holes in each flat. I've been meaning to build one, this might serve as inspiration.
I'm currently using pieces of 1" brass round stock faced square on each end and precision bored to the diameters I need for several calibres. They're a bit of a pia to make, frankly. And slightly overkill besides.
 
I think in one of his books, John Barsness explains what you are trying to do - the "leade" within the barrel is the transition from groove diameter (real close to bullet diameter) to the bore diameter - top edge of the rifling. So for "normal" 30 caliber - .308" groove; .300" bore. The leade is a taper - not likely to perfectly match the angle of your bullet ogive, but close. So he uses the middle distance - .304" in this case, if it is imperative to come up with a number. Unless you are going to have a "custom" seating stem turned for each bullet shape and bullet brand, most of us use what came in the die. Higher end target rifles apparently show a difference in group size when the "air gap' between the bullet's shoulder and the barrel leade is changed by a few thousands - your hunting rifle may be perfectly happy with .010" or even .020" increments, all else in the load being equal. There will likely be some distance that works best with your rifle and the bullets that you are using. I use the "Sharpie" trick as described above - count the turns or partial turns of the seating stem, and you come up with a seating depth that is no longer touching the lands, and once you know where the lands end, you can get pretty accurate "clearance" by counting partial turns on the seating stem - a waste of time if it is too long to fit in the magazine, in the first place. For a "hunting" round, I want case sizing appropriate for slick feeding; for accuracy I want minimal run-out. Then can play with "jump" to the "lead" but only if the first two are continued. Might be all different for a target rifle - I do not own one.
 
In my experience, it's not as picky as some would have us believe.
I experimented with a .243 Tikka a few years ago, increasing "jump" from contact to 0.120" in 0.020" increments. While the rifle did shoot better with the bullets (70 gr Sierra Match Kings) seated close to the lands, there was very little difference between contact and 0.040" jump. Once I got past 0.040", the groups opened up noticeably.
From what I've read, some bullets are more tolerant of the amount of jump than others.
 
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