Do die brands matter?

[bigedp51]

GENTLEMEN.........YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SET YOUR FULL LENGTH DIE SO THAT IT BUMPS HARD ON YOUR SHELLHOLDER.......IT'S ON THREADS, IT MOVES IN AND OUT, YOU CAN SET IT TO DO WHATEVER YOU WANT.

As stated by c-fbmi above your dies are adjustable up and down for a custom fit in "YOUR" chamber.

If you set up the die per the dies instructions in the image below you push the case shoulder to the green dotted line and size the case excessively.

In a bolt action you only need to push the case shoulder back .001 to .002 shorter than the red dotted line below.

If you do not have Redding competition shell holders you can place a .010 feeler gauge on top of the shell holder and screw the die down until it contacts the feeler gauge.

You then decrease the feeler gauge thickness .001 at a time until the case chambers without any bolt closing resistance.

NOTE, with mixed brass or cases with different annealing softness the springback will effect case length from shoulder to base. Meaning you may need to use a thinner feeler gauge and average the case length for proper chamber fit.

 

[Aniest]

Anything but Lee.......personal bias........Harold

Mine would be Hornady crimp dies for any straight walled cases: I can turn every piece of brass (any brass, in these cases Remington and others) to an exact length (as close as a calipers can measure), use a Lee crimp die and have no problems... try it with a Hornady crimp die and every third or fourth case will fold like it is to long. Tried it with .38/.357, .45ACP and .300Blackout: same issue on all of them.

Eventually sold the dies and got Lee dies and have had zero problems since. Just my opinion based on my experience: Your Mileage May Vary

 

[warrenb]

GENTLEMEN.........YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SET YOUR FULL LENGTH DIE SO THAT IT BUMPS HARD ON YOUR SHELLHOLDER.......IT'S ON THREADS, IT MOVES IN AND OUT, YOU CAN SET IT TO DO WHATEVER YOU WANT.

I would imagine thats exactly what most neck sizers do when the cases get hard to chamber.

I do it myself when necessary and or I don't have a neck die.

It is a good point to make.

 

[Potshot21]

I can't thank everyone enough for the wealth of knowledge and information presented. Have given this newbie reloader much to think about and test. So far I have only done FL resizing and it never occurred to me that I could use my FL dies to partially size brass. My leanings towards a neck-sizing die was simply because I don't have many bolt rifles, and the components for 338 Lap are pricey and was thinking more of being as economical as possible while still producing high quality cartridges. But if a set of FL dies can be made to perform nearly the same task, if not even more closely to my intended purpose, then that is probably the way to go.

 

[camster]

Too late?
Die manufacturer may matter...I don't shoot well enough yet to tell. Mixed lot of Dies here with Redding, Lyman, Lee, RCBS, and Hornady all doing what they should. I've been flaring using the next size up die's expander so dies also doing what they weren't intended for too.

With regard to neck sizing only, there will be a time to f/l brass. Frugality is one of my motivators for reloading, so knowing a f/l will be required I start with one. Hopefully I'll get to a level of shooting where fine tuning will show improvements. I do have neck sizing dies for one of my sets, but still don't shoot well enough to employ it effectively.

Opinions will vary, and change in time. I soooooo look forward to the day my groups reflect die manufacturer.

 

[Boomer]

To know how good your resizing die is, check the runout of a fired case, the check it again after resizing. The fired round should mirror the chamber of your rifle, and have minimum runout. If the runout after resizing remains unchanged, your die, and it's position, relative to the ram in your press, is true. If the shell holder on the ram is held askew, the runout of the case will increase. The same holds true when seating a bullet, if runout changes only slightly, all is good, if not, the cause should be investigated. If the press, ram, and shell holder are all correct, the die must be the culprit if there is a problem, but if changing dies doesn't resolve the problem, something else is going on.

 

[Ron AKA]

To know how good your resizing die is, check the runout of a fired case, the check it again after resizing. The fired round should mirror the chamber of your rifle, and have minimum runout. If the runout after resizing remains unchanged, your die, and it's position, relative to the ram in your press, is true. If the shell holder on the ram is held askew, the runout of the case will increase. The same holds true when seating a bullet, if runout changes only slightly, all is good, if not, the cause should be investigated. If the press, ram, and shell holder are all correct, the die must be the culprit if there is a problem, but if changing dies doesn't resolve the problem, something else is going on.

Some have used O-rings on their resizing die to give it more flexibility to self align and reduce induced runout. See this article. The other trick as I mentioned earlier is to get the expander ball high in the die, instead of low. Leaving 1/3 of the neck unsized, also helps, as it aligns the case in the neck better than if you size the whole neck. Necks on SAAMI chambered guns can be large.

 

[Boomer]

An o-ring under the lock ring of the dies, the lock rings of the expander/decapping rod, the seater stem, and another o-ring to replace the retainer spring for the the shell holder are all good ideas. I prefer to full length resize after each firing to ensure the shoulder gets a bump, and negate issues with difficult chambering. Of course a body die could do that as well.

 

[bigedp51]

To know how good your resizing die is, check the runout of a fired case, the check it again after resizing. The fired round should mirror the chamber of your rifle, and have minimum runout. If the runout after resizing remains unchanged, your die, and it's position, relative to the ram in your press, is true. If the shell holder on the ram is held askew, the runout of the case will increase. The same holds true when seating a bullet, if runout changes only slightly, all is good, if not, the cause should be investigated. If the press, ram, and shell holder are all correct, the die must be the culprit if there is a rproblem, but if changing dies doesn't resolve the problem, something else is going on.

Very good advice Boomer but I would like to add that the neck after sizing with a expander and checked with a runout gauge will show any neck thickness variations. I check the case necks with a Redding neck thickness gauge and the sized neck will mirror the redding gauge. Meaning if the case has .003 neck thickness variation the neck runout will be .003. If you have more than .003 neck runout then the die needs to be checked and adjusted.

Example, I use my Redding neck thickness gauge to sort my .223 cases, the cases with excessive neck thickness variations are used for blasting ammo in my AR15 carbine. I have seen Remington cases with up to .009 neck thickness variation.

This is where the Forster full length benchrest dies shine, the case neck is held by the neck of the die when the floating high mounted expander enters the "centered" case neck.

In the 9th edition of the Speer reloading manual there is a chapter on "Reloading to Benchrest Standards". In this chapter it tells you the main cause of neck runout happens when the expander spindle is locked down off center.

 

[hunters home]

bigedp51
You say you change your expander and spindle in RCBS type dies for the Foster ones. I have a few sets of Foster dies and they are great dies and I agree with you about the high expander ball helping in case neck run out What I do with my RCBS type dies is remove the decapper pin and set the spindle with the expander ball as high as is practical in the die. As far as removing the primers I do this in a seperate operation. I also use rubber o-rings between the spindle nut and die. Somewhat like the Foster setup. This saves some funds and does work for me.

 

[bigedp51]

bigedp51
You say you change your expander and spindle in RCBS type dies for the Foster ones. I have a few sets of Foster dies and they are great dies and I agree with you about the high expander ball helping in case neck run out What I do with my RCBS type dies is remove the decapper pin and set the spindle with the expander ball as high as is practical in the die. As far as removing the primers I do this in a seperate operation. I also use rubber o-rings between the spindle nut and die. Somewhat like the Foster setup. This saves some funds and does work for me.

This depends on how far down the RCBS spindle is threaded if it will work like the Forster expander.

Below on the left is the RCBS .223 spindle raised as far as it will go, and on the right is the Forster spindle and expander assembly at the proper height.

The RCBS expander is too low and the case neck will not be held by the neck of the die when the expander enters the case neck.

NOTE, I have been told that some RCBS spindles are threaded lower and "can" be setup like the Forster expander with a o-ring added under the lock nut.

On semi-auto cases, the inside of the rim can get chewed up and cause the case to tilt in the shell holder on the down stroke. In a normal die this will cause the neck to be pulled off center, the Forster die centers the case neck and holds it as the expander enters the neck even with a chewed up rim.

Bottom line, the high mounted expander greatly reduces neck runout during sizing. And the Forster and Redding benchrest seating dies produce very straight ammo.

 

[hunters home]

See what you mean. On the dies I have done this to the spindle rod was threaded far enough down to achieve this. I think that if I had a short one I would try threading it down more. Shouldn't be to complicated.

 

[Boomer]

Very good advice Boomer but I would like to add that the neck after sizing with a expander and checked with a runout gauge will show any neck thickness variations. I check the case necks with a Redding neck thickness gauge and the sized neck will mirror the redding gauge. Meaning if the case has .003 neck thickness variation the neck runout will be .003. If you have more than .003 neck runout then the die needs to be checked and adjusted.

Example, I use my Redding neck thickness gauge to sort my .223 cases, the cases with excessive neck thickness variations are used for blasting ammo in my AR15 carbine. I have seen Remington cases with up to .009 neck thickness variation.

This is where the Forster full length benchrest dies shine, the case neck is held by the neck of the die when the floating high mounted expander enters the "centered" case neck.

In the 9th edition of the Speer reloading manual there is a chapter on "Reloading to Benchrest Standards". In this chapter it tells you the main cause of neck runout happens when the expander spindle is locked down off center.

Excellent information, thanks.