Still alive
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Rainy mosquito infested part of BC
Sounds like we have a common friend! My buddy does the exact same thing. Peep sights, old 30-06 Mauser action, 30 yr old ammo. 3 shots a year!
Do hunters overthink accuracy
- Thread starter heronfish
- Start date
When I was a teenager I can remember telling ( in my ignorance) a man why the 'two groove' Lee Enfield wasn't 'accurate enough'for deer hunting.The man, who had been a trained rifleman in the Canadian army suggested the two groove Lee Enfield was far more accurate than I was capable of shooting and he doubted I could tell the diference at the range.....I suggest that too many people are sucked into the 'flavour of the week' reasoning on accuracy,unless they are dedicated target shooters.Given the average range deer are killed at ,holding it straight counts far more than the gun used( gopher hunting I consider 'taget shooting' where accuracy does count) .Parden my cynicism but it appears to me that Gun writers have to have something to write about in order to sell magazines and keep their jobs and gun manufacturers have to have something new for the annual gun show in order to make sales and the best way to do that us make customers dissatisfied with what they already own...chances are shooting a few boxes of shells is probably a better investment in accuracy than buying a new rifle and taking the time to make the first shot count is generally better in hunting situations than any new rifle could ever achieve...the old adage'one shot-one deer,two shots -maybe a deer,and three shots-no deer ' is still a pretty good description of most hunting situations
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printing cloverleads at 100 yds will give you the confidence to make a 400 yard shot....minute of pie plate at 100 won't.
Wearing my lucky socks gives all the confidence I need.
Some would call that a false confidence, but they probably don't know much about socks.Want some confidence that means something at 400 (or 600, or 800)? Its pretty simple really; go to those distances and shoot. It separates "oughta work" from "does work".
IN actual fact, printing cloverleafs at 100yds may give you the misplaced confidence to attempt a 400 yard shot. When you can hit the aforementioned pie plate (with or without pie) at 400 yards, every time, from field positions, you can feel confident in attempting that four hundred yard shot. I have watched guys banging away at 100 yards, with the rifle settled into their lead sled. and I wonder, what's the point? I seldom shoot my hunting rifles from a rest anymore. I also seldom shoot my silohuette rifles from a rest. In fact, the only rifles I regularily shoot from a rest are those which are intended to be shot that way ( "F" class, BR, varmint rifles). If, shooting off my elbows, I can stay within the 2 moa range, I figure I'm OK.printing cloverleads at 100 yds will give you the confidence to make a 400 yard shot....minute of pie plate at 100 won't.
I agree, long range success doesn't happen by practicing at 100m. My home range has a winter league where we compete in field positions and fast moving targets at 100m. Some of the guys that come out are very hard to beat but every once in a while I'll get them talked into a match at 300...lots of these same guys can't even get on paper.
And the pie plate at 100m...good god! Unless its traveling at 25 miles an hour I don't think it represents much.
And the pie plate at 100m...good god! Unless its traveling at 25 miles an hour I don't think it represents much.
A lot of people overthink a lot of things. Some of this is because they might only have a weekend or a week to hunt, and have the rest of the year to think about it. And thinking about gun and hunting minutia is more fun than thinking about work or other such things.
when i was guiding i ve seen people that can hit the targets but not the game because hunting is not only shooting. i ve seen here local shooters not able to put at 100 meters on the targets and despite that going hunting ...
and i ve seen people hitting targets and game with no discussion.
pretty sure we are most in between of that, no?
and i ve seen people hitting targets and game with no discussion.
pretty sure we are most in between of that, no?
nowarningshot
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Whatever you can accomplish from a controlled bench will be at least twice as good as you can do in the field. The only thing i would add to being able to hit a dinner plate, would be not at 100 yards, but at the distance you typically shoot game. I seldom get long shots, 80ft to 80yards is normal. If you cant hit the plate, pass or get closer.
With around 50 yrs. hunting and shooting, I'd like to contribute my 2 cents worth. I'm fortunate to have access to CFB Borden and we shoot at the long ranges fairly regularly. I agree with the guys who mention that just because you can shoot MOA or sub-MOA groups at 100 yds, you don't know for sure what you can do at longer ranges. When my hunting rifles are sighted in and shooting well at 100 yds., I take them to long range shoots to see what the rifle, the load I'm using, and I can do at the longer ranges. Then you have to account for what kind of hunting you do. Are you pushing? Do you use dogs? Are you shooting game on the run? Are you prone to "buck fever"? Do you hunt open terrain or heavily forested bush?
Personally, where we hunt is nice bush with some old logging roads and trails, but the maximum field of fire is about 150-170 yds. and only in one or two spots. Most of the good spots are 30-70 yd. shooting. We stand hunt and take all the necessary steps to maximize our chances at getting a clean shot. I'm happy to say that everything I drop is one shot, but I have confidence in my skills, my rifle, and my ammo. I don't take "iffy" shots and I've never had to try to find a wounded deer because of my stupidity. To the gentleman who feels that hitting a styrofoam plate (8" or 10"?) at 100 yds. is good enough, each to their own. Neither I, nor the others in our group, would welcome a shooter like that into the gang, but as I said, whatever works for you.
Personally, where we hunt is nice bush with some old logging roads and trails, but the maximum field of fire is about 150-170 yds. and only in one or two spots. Most of the good spots are 30-70 yd. shooting. We stand hunt and take all the necessary steps to maximize our chances at getting a clean shot. I'm happy to say that everything I drop is one shot, but I have confidence in my skills, my rifle, and my ammo. I don't take "iffy" shots and I've never had to try to find a wounded deer because of my stupidity. To the gentleman who feels that hitting a styrofoam plate (8" or 10"?) at 100 yds. is good enough, each to their own. Neither I, nor the others in our group, would welcome a shooter like that into the gang, but as I said, whatever works for you.
Seems a lot of "old boy" feathers are ruffled about this. If someone wants to lug a 15 lbs bench shooter through the bush and bag a deer, what's the problem? If he wants to lug it up a mountain to drop a goat, what's the problem? If someone wants to climb a tree with their 6 lbs slayer and sit in a tree stand from sun up, to sun down, what's the problem?
Hunting is hunting. Maybe next time you hear someone talking about there -0.5 MOA rifle ask them when the last time the dropped an animal with it was. He/she will say one of three things:
"Oh, I use a different gun for hunting. This pig is too heavy for that!"... Cool, nice gun then, have fun!
Or, "Just last season, got a beautiful buck!"... Really? Awesome, good for you!
Or, "I don't hunt, but I really enjoy shooting"... Oh, okay man. That's cool, but you should try hunting. See what a rifle is designed to do! If you like shooting your half way to enjoying a hunt! That rig is a nice set-up, but most guys would never lug it through the bush (and then, walk away)
We can all be civil to one another's variation of the firearms sport.
Hunting is hunting. Maybe next time you hear someone talking about there -0.5 MOA rifle ask them when the last time the dropped an animal with it was. He/she will say one of three things:
"Oh, I use a different gun for hunting. This pig is too heavy for that!"... Cool, nice gun then, have fun!
Or, "Just last season, got a beautiful buck!"... Really? Awesome, good for you!
Or, "I don't hunt, but I really enjoy shooting"... Oh, okay man. That's cool, but you should try hunting. See what a rifle is designed to do! If you like shooting your half way to enjoying a hunt! That rig is a nice set-up, but most guys would never lug it through the bush (and then, walk away)
We can all be civil to one another's variation of the firearms sport.
I never would have interpreted it in that fashion.
I would say that most hunters do very very little shooting, heck I was that guy for years. The browning came out of the cabinet in November, grabbed a box of shells in whatever grain they happened to be and off I went. It was sighted in years prior. I now have more loaded rounds than I'd ever shoot in a lifetime.
I still don't see the need to take that same rifle and spend hours upon hours trying to make it a precision rifle of it when it will get me under 2 inches quite easily. And that's with my mediocre marksmanship.
What someone else takes afield is of no consequence to me, unless it's a Remington 770. Never trust a man who will own that rifle. In jest people, put your pitchforks away. If you want to own junk, remington is the brand for you.
I currently own three rifles that will regularly shoot sub .5 MOA from a bench. They are all fairly expensive and wear S & B or Nightforce glass.
What do I hunt with?
A beat up old style synthetic stock Model 7 in .308 with the 18.5" barrel. Weighs 5.75 pounds without the scope and rings.
I believe it was made in the '50s. Got it a gun show.
Shoots regularly about 1.25" at 100 yards and holds its zero season to season.
Plenty good enough for me.
But where I hunt I will never be shooting in excess of 200-250 yards.
Were I to be long range hunting I would be using a more accurate rifle.
What do I hunt with?
A beat up old style synthetic stock Model 7 in .308 with the 18.5" barrel. Weighs 5.75 pounds without the scope and rings.
I believe it was made in the '50s. Got it a gun show.
Shoots regularly about 1.25" at 100 yards and holds its zero season to season.
Plenty good enough for me.
But where I hunt I will never be shooting in excess of 200-250 yards.
Were I to be long range hunting I would be using a more accurate rifle.
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Maybe I misinterpreted some peoples comments. But my comment was more of a "to each their own". If you can humanly kill your game with minimal practice, that's fine. But if Johnny Rambo wants to tacticool his rifle and play Enemy At the Gates (I'll take some heat and raise my hand) while he is honing his craft BUT he also brings that overweight fire breathing, metal slinging beast to the bush... that's cool too.
It's all good, as you said " to each their own ".
I've packed a 13 lb. Shiloh Sharps and next time out a 6 lb. 700 Ti., both good shooters.
I have met and chatted with many hunters packing outfits the left me scratching my head, but you know what ?, they seemed happy so why not.
I do precision shooting and have yet to have to take a shot over 100yds. My last two deer were taken at <50yds. I almost want to wait for one to be further away lol.
Also I have seen people miss a perfect broadside shot at an elk at 75 yds with their precious tac driving Sako rifle. 99% of accuracy is the shooter in my experience.
Also I have seen people miss a perfect broadside shot at an elk at 75 yds with their precious tac driving Sako rifle. 99% of accuracy is the shooter in my experience.
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- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
My issue isn't with people that can shoot the rifles they hunt with, it's the ones that think they can shoot from the bench and then try to hunt offhand or kneeling and can't figure out what went wrong when they miss , no matter what the distance is , and nlsne had equipment .
I've got a bit of a history in competitive full bore and long range vsrminting and big game hunting .
Quite frankly some of the new age hunters surprise me with what they tell me they can do but have never proven it on the range
Cat
I've got a bit of a history in competitive full bore and long range vsrminting and big game hunting .
Quite frankly some of the new age hunters surprise me with what they tell me they can do but have never proven it on the range
Cat
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Fully agree cat...... Bench rest shooting is for developing loads and testing etc...... 75% or more of my range sessions are from shooting positions I will use while hunting.........
It's odd though, because my club is predominantly hunters...... And I get weird looks for shooting off of my monopod or going prone etc...... Lol.....
I surely need to read less on the internet, but it always strikes me as confusing when I see the repeated threads about a guy asking what rifle he should buy for the next elk hunt with the usual condition that the rifle needs to be able to shoot 500 yards or even further. The guys that can accurately shoot that far have a skill set far superior to mine but most guys going hunting do not have the ability to get anywhere close to that.
It's not as if the newest magnum or rifle is a magical laser that makes distance irrelevant.
The internet is a dangerous place to gather opinions at times, I've frequently and recently read statements (like getting a half inch group at 400 yards from an out of the box rifle). Let's remember the regular hunter is a smelly old duff that is just glad to be away from the wife and work for a week.
It's not as if the newest magnum or rifle is a magical laser that makes distance irrelevant.
The internet is a dangerous place to gather opinions at times, I've frequently and recently read statements (like getting a half inch group at 400 yards from an out of the box rifle). Let's remember the regular hunter is a smelly old duff that is just glad to be away from the wife and work for a week.
