Do I need to pull em’ ?
- Thread starter Ghillbert
- Start date
- Location
- Delta B.C.
New brass is irrelevant. Fire form then base your reloads.
OP, the answers here don't get into much depth as to why folks do what they do.
First off, as mentioned in one thread, your "first" shots through each case will be for "fire forming" the cases to the chamber of "your" rifle.
In most cases, this isn't part of the "accuracy process," but in some instances, some rifles will shoot extremely well with unfired cases.
When I'm fire forming cases, I usually shoot cast bullets to keep costs down and preserve bullets, which can sometimes be difficult to access these days.
I chamfer the case mouths before slightly resizing about 2mm of the case neck, with the expander ball in place, of course.
Then I clean up the primer pockets, on the inside, because even Lapua brass can have internal burrs around the flash hole. This is more to save decapping pins than any other reason.
This is something I'm comfortable with, but don't advise anyone else to do, unless they're experienced enough to use some discretion.
I'm only looking to produce enough pressure to form the case to the exact dimensions of my rifle's chamber during the first firing. No need to stress things any more than necessary.
I use "large pistol primers," rather than hard to find/expensive large rifle primers. This is "safe," as long as I don't insist on heavy powder charges, and stick to suggested starting loads for cast projectiles in just about any manual. For this, you will also need some other powder, but you can likely get away with what you have on hand with minimum loads.
If you're only shooting one rifle, then it may not be worth your time and effort to use my fire forming process, but using cast bullets will save you at least a dollar per round during the fire forming process.
Most "Big Box" stores don't carry cast projectiles, and I don't see many online sources for them, so they may be difficult to obtain.
But in most cases, not all, those fire forming rounds are just throwing projectiles down range to create suitably consistent cases for more accurate shooting later. As mentioned, "SOME" rifles shoot those rounds very well, but IMHO, most don't.
I don't uniform the case lengths until after the initial fire forming shot, and subsequent neck resizing only.
You don't mention what you plan to do with your "first" batch of handloads. Are you intending to use them as sighting rounds, then hunt with what's left? This would be a mistake IMHO, depending on your rifle.
Not all rifles are created equal. They are manufactured to be within SAAMI specifications, and chambers can be anywhere from maximum to minimum. The same goes for ammunition components. Even rifles/ammo components from the same manufacturer may not be consistent from lot to lot, or rifle to rifle.
When you handload, the first point is to create consistent/predictable performance from your ammunition, that is best for your rifle. It very likely will not be the best recipe for a different rifle, even though it's chambered for the same round.
From your picture, you made up some very pretty ammo. It may or may not shoot well on the first firing. If some of the projectiles are loose, neck tensions might cause some issues when feeding from the magazine into the chamber. I would expect the odd "flyer" from such rounds.
Good luck
First off, as mentioned in one thread, your "first" shots through each case will be for "fire forming" the cases to the chamber of "your" rifle.
In most cases, this isn't part of the "accuracy process," but in some instances, some rifles will shoot extremely well with unfired cases.
When I'm fire forming cases, I usually shoot cast bullets to keep costs down and preserve bullets, which can sometimes be difficult to access these days.
I chamfer the case mouths before slightly resizing about 2mm of the case neck, with the expander ball in place, of course.
Then I clean up the primer pockets, on the inside, because even Lapua brass can have internal burrs around the flash hole. This is more to save decapping pins than any other reason.
This is something I'm comfortable with, but don't advise anyone else to do, unless they're experienced enough to use some discretion.
I'm only looking to produce enough pressure to form the case to the exact dimensions of my rifle's chamber during the first firing. No need to stress things any more than necessary.
I use "large pistol primers," rather than hard to find/expensive large rifle primers. This is "safe," as long as I don't insist on heavy powder charges, and stick to suggested starting loads for cast projectiles in just about any manual. For this, you will also need some other powder, but you can likely get away with what you have on hand with minimum loads.
If you're only shooting one rifle, then it may not be worth your time and effort to use my fire forming process, but using cast bullets will save you at least a dollar per round during the fire forming process.
Most "Big Box" stores don't carry cast projectiles, and I don't see many online sources for them, so they may be difficult to obtain.
But in most cases, not all, those fire forming rounds are just throwing projectiles down range to create suitably consistent cases for more accurate shooting later. As mentioned, "SOME" rifles shoot those rounds very well, but IMHO, most don't.
I don't uniform the case lengths until after the initial fire forming shot, and subsequent neck resizing only.
You don't mention what you plan to do with your "first" batch of handloads. Are you intending to use them as sighting rounds, then hunt with what's left? This would be a mistake IMHO, depending on your rifle.
Not all rifles are created equal. They are manufactured to be within SAAMI specifications, and chambers can be anywhere from maximum to minimum. The same goes for ammunition components. Even rifles/ammo components from the same manufacturer may not be consistent from lot to lot, or rifle to rifle.
When you handload, the first point is to create consistent/predictable performance from your ammunition, that is best for your rifle. It very likely will not be the best recipe for a different rifle, even though it's chambered for the same round.
From your picture, you made up some very pretty ammo. It may or may not shoot well on the first firing. If some of the projectiles are loose, neck tensions might cause some issues when feeding from the magazine into the chamber. I would expect the odd "flyer" from such rounds.
Good luck
Ok taking in all the different bits of advice and am going to fl size them but I did shoot some of each load on my ladder as is first to see how not sizing them first and the issue of some seating too easy turned out.
They shot normally, no big variations on pressure and saw some good and not as good hits which is fine, it’s testing.
Now I am pulling the rest and fl sizing all of them and then doing the same ladder again to see if I get the same or similar results from each load and continue testing from there.
Thanks again everyone for the replies everyone It’s appreciated and helps with the learning curve.
As to bearhunters question on what i plan on these loads is keep testing and fl sizing all until I find the right powder/pill combo then once testing is done load them all in that as my hunting ammo. ( until I want to try something new then I will buy more brass and do it all again! )
I now have a new question about bullet pulling on fully resized ready to shoot cartridges that I want to change either the projectile or the powder charge in, how do I bring just the neck tension back to reseat another especially if I want to keep that powder load and change seating depth (say I seated too deep for example) ?
They shot normally, no big variations on pressure and saw some good and not as good hits which is fine, it’s testing.
Now I am pulling the rest and fl sizing all of them and then doing the same ladder again to see if I get the same or similar results from each load and continue testing from there.
Thanks again everyone for the replies everyone It’s appreciated and helps with the learning curve.
As to bearhunters question on what i plan on these loads is keep testing and fl sizing all until I find the right powder/pill combo then once testing is done load them all in that as my hunting ammo. ( until I want to try something new then I will buy more brass and do it all again! )
I now have a new question about bullet pulling on fully resized ready to shoot cartridges that I want to change either the projectile or the powder charge in, how do I bring just the neck tension back to reseat another especially if I want to keep that powder load and change seating depth (say I seated too deep for example) ?
- Location
- Delta B.C.
Lot's of great advise here. As far as pulling the bullets goes and trying to get consistent neck tension. It would depend somewhat on your crimp. Do you crimp? I do it as a separate process with a Lee factory crimp die. When I pull bullets, I never use data from that case or bullet. Strictly fire form the case is all I do afterwards. I will however run my Short Action Customs neck tension mandrel in all my cases before powder charge and bullet seating. Once you fire form and then resize you will have more consistent case capacity. That's a big part of getting your FPS into tight numbers. Some guys weight sort the brass as well as lot numbers and manufacture.
I recently purchased a bunch of ADG 6.8wstrn brass and am having to re-develop my hunting load. I think we are in the same type of boat if I read your original post correctly. I made detailed inspection and measurements of all the new brass. It is all identical in outside measurements. The only thing I'm doing to the brass is checking the flash holes for burrs with a Lyman flash hole tool, neck chamfering and running the S.A.C. tension mandrel. Then loading with some cheaper bullets and a published load data to form the case. I do look at my results when shooting but it's irrelevant due to the changes to the case capacity after firing. I hope this helps a bit. Cheers
WHY on earth would you ream brand new LAPUA cases?
Maybe. Depends on your sizing die.
The 308Win case is almost straight walled with just a 3 degree taper from base to shoulder.
This design is done purposely to enhance feeding and extraction.
It's one of the few rimless cases which you can get away with FL resizing regularly. But WHY would you???? after you've fireformed the cases???
FL resizing works the cases more than is necessary.
For long case life, on an expensive component, partially size the case, rather than FL resize.
It's easy to use a felt marker on a case neck and set your sizing die so it's visible to see where the case gets partially resized.
Mark the neck, then lube the case, then run it through your sizing die, "WHICH HAS BEEN BACKED OFF 1/4 TURN."
Turn the die "down," until it's just sizing the shoulder/case junction, but not setting back the shoulder.
This way, the case is still formed to perfectly fit your chamber and eliminate one factor that may or may not be giving you accuracy issues.
Remember, all chambers have "tolerances" and when your case is chambered it will drop to bottom dead center of whatever angle you are holding your rifle. That means your bullet isn't concentric with the axis of the bore, and enters the leade at a very slight angle, which will have a negative effect on accuracy. It's the main reason the heavily tapered cases of eras past had such long necks.
When you chamber a fireformed round, that tolerance is taken up.
He probably meant Champher - deburr the inside necksWHY on earth would you ream brand new LAPUA cases?
Maybe. Depends on your sizing die.
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I would shoot all what is reloaded, to receive an idea of the best load. There are two choices after the first firing: outside neck turning and inside neck reaming. This is what I would do, if I had any concern with neck tension.
