do I really need a nightforce?

Go with S&B PMII FFP with 4P and don't look back. Have used this scope to 1Mile at Tiggr's shoot on three different rifles over the past several years. You will be impressed with the detail the scope shows at that distance - bad mirage or not. Tried to help a fellow with NF to go the distance in mirage - the S&B and NF scopes are not in the same league.
 
OKTREE said:
Go with S&B PMII FFP with 4P and don't look back. Have used this scope to 1Mile at Tiggr's shoot on three different rifles over the past several years. You will be impressed with the detail the scope shows at that distance - bad mirage or not. Tried to help a fellow with NF to go the distance in mirage - the S&B and NF scopes are not in the same league.
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Um... The guy is talking about spending 1k, and you're talkin him into a 3k optic? No one is doubting the optical quality of an S&B, but it's a liiiittle overkill for a new shooter.
 
canucklehead said:
Um... The guy is talking about spending 1k, and you're talkin him into a 3k optic? No one is doubting the optical quality of an S&B, but it's a liiiittle overkill for a new shooter.
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Not even about the money ... I would personally just run NF anyway. Not to knock S&B , But I like NF better and its half the price.... Personal preference
 
I am currently in the same situation that canucklehead was in with his Vortex Viper...reticle rotating with magnification. Scope went off to Vortex for warranty, and I still haven't received it back yet. Gonna sell it when I do, whether they send me a new one or mine repaired. If you want my "underrated" Vortex, I'll PM you when it comes in...

In the meantime, I have ordered my replacement scope...I purchased a Nightforce NXS 3.5-15x50 SFP with MOAR reticle. I had to sell a couple of firearms to come up with the cash, but I won't make the same mistake again with surprisingly affordable optics that offer the same features as high-end ones. I've been saying this alot lately on CGN in various forums: You get what you pay for...plain and simple.

So if you can afford it, get the Nightforce...
 
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If your budget is $1k get a Sightron Siii you will happy with scope, if your budget is $2k the NF NXS will make you even happier the optics between these two is very close but the NF is more robust and if you have over $3k to blow you can't beat the S&B never look through one yet but if everybody tells you its the best it must mean something.
 
I think you should research FFP vs SFP and make a long term commitment to one or the other. They both have their uses, their pros and their cons. Myself I prefer SFP as I don't have to do rapid ranging and holds so having my reticle stay the same size while the image grows with magnification is what I prefer. Your decision ultimately depends on how you plan to use the scope.

lonewonderer said:
I don't really NEED it but it's more of a want, if I'm going to be spending over 2k on a scope, I want it to have everything. I don't want to be in a situation where in the future I might wish I had a FFP.
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lonewonderer said:
I don't really NEED it but it's more of a want, if I'm going to be spending over 2k on a scope, I want it to have everything. I don't want to be in a situation where in the future I might wish I had a FFP.
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Fair enough- I guess it depends on your shooting type.I've actually never been in a scenario where FFP would help, but again I have additional tools. :)
 
You defiantly get what you pay for. I would say a leupold mark 4 lrt is a good second focal plane scope and is comparable in quality to a night force . A lot of people actually prefer the warmer picture.

If you want a good front focal the ert mark 4 is great but a little more money tho .

I own both nightforce and leupold optics and honestly the higher end leupolds such as the mark 4 's are comparable to the nsx nightforce scopes. Both have some good points and negative points. But I have never had a single issue with any leupold or nightforce .
 
If you arent going to be milling tgts at varying ranges than there is really no need for a FFP. Unless you want to be part of the tacticool crowd. Which most people do...
 
canucklehead said:
Just my honest opinion...

I had a Vortex PST 6-24x50. "Nice scope" i thought. That is until I sold it and the buyer told me the reticle rotated when he zoomed. I shot about 100 rounds of .223 with it mounted, and it broke. Same deal with a Razor 1-4x I had. Yes the warranty is great. But if you're trying it say it's 'comparable' to a NF, I'm sorry to say you are SADLY mistaken. Clarity on the top end of magnification is not even CLOSE. Once you compare side by side, you'd quickly see they are not in the same ballpark.

As I said before you can find a used NF in the EE all day for between $1600-1800. Less than twice the money, and at least 3x the optic that Vortex is. You say Vortex is under-rated. I used to think so (and still think their Viper Binoculars ARE underrated), but now I'm in the 'Vortex is OVERrated' camp.

You won't be sorry if you buy a NF. 3.5-15x50 is probably what you're looking for. You MIGHT be sorry if you buy a Vortex. I had two, and was sorry I bought either one.
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I've been quite happy with my RazorHD 1-4. It's well built and the glass quality is on par with other comparable offerings in its price range. Maybe you got a lemon (it happens, and although Vortex has a great warranty, initial QC doesn't seem to be there), but if you get a good one, it is a good scope.
 
bearhunter said:
The only problem with really decent glass is that once you use it and get used to using it, nothing else is good enough anymore.

There are other options out there that are in the same range in quality as the NF. Some are more expensive and some are cheaper.

I have a love affair going with IOR Valdada offerings at about half the price to the same price, depending which model.

Zeiss, high end Leupolds, maybe the Vortex and Sightron. I've looked through and am impressed with the sharpness and clarity of the Vortex and Sightron offerings but I'm not impressed with their adjustments and repeatability of those adjustments. That is my humble opinion only. Other folks love them. I feel they aren't much better than the Bushenell 6500, which I also have a lot of respect for as well as their adjustments and repeatability.
Positive, repeatable adjustments are very important at longer ranges, not so much at shorter ranges.
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X2 on this post by Bearhunter
For me the Jewel of scopes is the NF Benchrest $500+ less money and for me they are clearer than the NXS models.
I do know after 7 or 8 years of F class shooting the tracking is perfect compared to most other scopes especially Leupolds which have problems, maybe not the Mark 4 ??
I had chance last weekend to use a New NF competition 55x I was impressed with it. I have looked through a March 80x quite impressive but at $3800 to rich for my blood and really no need for big power for F class with all mirage conditions on hot humid days, you would have to turn scope back to 20x.
If you want the best sharpness of any scope you might look at the Swarovski Z6 for me there is no better scope made that I have seen its just plain stunning clear
 
lonewonderer said:
Recently recieved a remington 5r in .308.

I was thinking of saving up about $2000-2600 for a nighforce nxs or f1. However, at this price range I could also get a cheap
leupold riflemen ($400) and a flir thermal monoscope ($1800 - just a cool thing to have).

I wanted to practice long range shooting (1000 yards) but there's not many opportunities for that in Saskatoon; our local range only goes out to about 200 yards. I love shooting but it's a new hobby for me and I'm just not sure if it's right to go off the deep end so early with a nightforce. From what I've read, one should buy the best scope they can afford but would this apply to my situation too?
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1st, the limited experience I have had with the Leupold Rifleman series has been bad. I wouldn't touch one. If you are going with entry level get a Zeiss Conquest or a Bushnell 6500 Elite.

2nd, fill your boots. If you want a FLIR monoscope go ahead, but it has nothing to do with this discussion.

3rd, if you shoot long range a lot get a Nightforce it is one of several scopes that are well suited to long range shooting. A brand new one will probably run around 2.5 k with rings and bases.

Having shot Nightforce scopes for a few years now I'll try to identify why I keep buying more of them. They have very good glass and have a broad variety of reticles, many of which are illuminated. They have a very good lifetime warranty that they stand behind. But for me what really sets them apart is the absolute repeatability of the POI and the movement of the turrets. Two clicks is always two clicks with a Nightforce. A very tough and precise scope with very good glass.

As SWISSINN has mentioned think carefully about FFP. The novelty of ranging with it will wear off quickly I suspect.

I would do some reading on Milldot vs MOA before making a decision. I find the math of MOA easier to do in my head than the milliradian math, but each to their own as both systems work. My point is to acquaint yourself with both and determine which one you think you will be most comfortable with as after about 350 yards those increments on your reticle really start to matter and you will be doing this stuff in your head.
 
OKTREE said:
Go with S&B PMII FFP with 4P and don't look back. Have used this scope to 1Mile at Tiggr's shoot on three different rifles over the past several years. You will be impressed with the detail the scope shows at that distance - bad mirage or not. Tried to help a fellow with NF to go the distance in mirage - the S&B and NF scopes are not in the same league.
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Neither is the price btw the two. I have used both, on work guns and if I am not paying for it out of my own pocket a NF still can compete with the S&B. The warranty is better with the NF and built like a tank. S&B has has some qc issues recently and the only drawback to the NF right now is the limited selection of scopes with FFP, again if you don't require it its not an issue. If paying for it myself, NF hands down as S&B is not that much better to jusitfy the price difference.
 
canucklehead said:
Unless youre shooting at unknown distances with a time limit- just use a rangefinder
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Don't forget that most NF reticles can be used to range find pretty rapidly if the target is of a known size. Even average sizes work wonderfully for the range finding unless you're competing.

For the OP, of course you need a Nightforce. I happen to have a brand new one for sale at the moment ;).
 
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