Do new hunters get the shaft?

Sariel

Sariel

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Brampton, ON
As a new hunter and firearm owner, I would have to say yes.

I want to try and go deer hunting this coming fall. But it seems that things are set up against someone who is "new".
At first I figured we could just go and find some Crown land to hunt on. After a long and heated discussion with my father, I decided I would ask the group what their opinion was. My dad's contention was/is that most of the readily available and accessible crown land is already spoken for. He said that there was a sort of "gentleman’s agreement" about crown land. That if someone else hunts there, the land is taken. He said that "Road Hunters" are not well looked upon, and that I could face having our tires slashed if we encroach on someone else’s territory.

How the hell will I know who has what area? Do I have to waste 2-3 deer seasons driving around trying to figure out who hunts where?

That being the case, if you don’t own or know anyone that owns some property. Then where should new hunters go to find a place to hunt?

Is there a system in place by where a hunter can find farmers/property owners looking to have the deer etc. culled off their property?

Any suggestions here would be appreciated.
:)

Thanks
Sariel
 
Crown land belongs to everyone. Period. There will always be buttplugs that will vandalise your stuff. Catch 'em and charge them. Now if you want to get acquainted with whomever hunts on that particular piece of crown land, drive by several times a few weeks before the deer opener and especially on weekends. If you see any vehicles, stop, get out and go for a walk. You have to scout your hunting area prior to the season anyway. If you see people around, stop and introduce yourself. Let them know you'll be hunting that particular area as well. They might tell you the areas to avoid (ie- their area) but might also recommend another area as well. Not everyone is an asshat. You might even make a few friends as well. Good luck,

-Jason
 
Say what>>?:D
When it comes to crown land , its for all . I think what your dad was talking about is if someone is setup in an area, don't go a trampen through , as he or she is sitting in the cold for a reason.
Find some crown land , do your scouting , and go hunting.
There is lots and lots of country out there. If your new to hunting , hook up with someone local to help you get started. Which is right now in my opinion.
No better time to scout an area than right after the season. May even find sheds later on.
A few hints,
Plan your actual hunt at the right time of year
During the week has little pressure
Use other hunters as to your advantage, stay in the woods at lunch time.
Read about hunting the game your after online, many tips available.
The bottom line do some homework, pays big time when your out in the woods. :)

From reading the answer above, take any info with a grain of salt, if their are big deer in the area, count on them sending you over the next ridge:D
But do say hi:)
Steps I use in a new area
TOPO , to find potential locations
Tracks on the edge of that area
Then its in the woods to find old sign from the year before, you will also notice sign from years before, to help you figure out the pattern that has been developing for years.
 
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I can't speak for back East, out West (here) I have never heard of similar issues. You head out to where you want to setup camp, if there are already people there and the site is full, you move a little further down the road. If there are more spaces available, setup right beside them if you like, I don't know of anyone who would complain, unless you keep everyone around you awake at night partying.

As for tire slashing and the like, never heard of it happening here, not saying it hasn't, I just haven't heard of it. If you head out to a spot to hunt in the morning and someone else is there, sure you let him be and go in a different direction but you don't have to leave the entire area, as in go miles and miles away.

We ALWAYS run into people, usually guides and their customers, we just give them the right of way if they were there ahead of us and we stand put if we were there first and they go somewhere else. No troubles or fights, just common sense and common courtesy. It's Crown land and you have just as much right to hunt it as the next guy.

If you are told that people will be hunting in a certain area, it's in your best interest to avoid that area. If you charge in any way and cause a problem, ya, you could get your tires slashed I guess, but you would have been asking for trouble. Tell your Dad to relax, as long as peopel are civil and willing to accomodate each others rights to hunt an area, you'll never have a problem. Now there are always exceptions, some folks are just a$$holes and should be avoided whether they are in the bush or not.
 
I understand your frustration. It seems that hunting can be an old boys club even on public land. One thing you might do is find a map that shows who owns the private land and scout around during the summer to find good areas. Stop in for a friendly visit to these landowners and explain your situation about being new and you just might find your own personal little hot spot. People are usually more open to the idea during the summer when you are not dressed in camo with a bunch of guys.

Hang in there it is worth it. And as for crown land it belongs to everyone so if you are the first one in to set up and don't interfere with who is there tell them to kiss your A**. If you can get someone to drop you off and pick you up so no one can mess with your rig. Too bad we have to put up with idiots.
 
I've hunted on GTA Crown land and haven't had any problems.

If you're looking for private land to hunt on and you've joined the OFAH as so many of the instructors at OHEP courses will push you to do, check out http://www.ofah.org/connection/.
 
Don't fret on it for another second pick some crown land and go out and hunt. What you are being told just isn't true. There is the odd jerk in every pastime and yes certain groups of good old boys down at your local fish and game club, sporting goods stores and online forums seem to take great glee in acting exclusive or self important and making newbies feel stupid but they are in the minority, ignore them.

Crown land belongs to everyone! Although all my hunting experience is in BC I have never heard of issues like those you are speaking about. I hunt new land to me each year as well as my tested and true areas. In general I have found the exact opposite of what your father describes. Other hunters always stop and shoot the breeze at my camp and vice versa. You will find there is a brotherhood amongst hunters out in the bush. Respect others space where and when they are hunting to the best of your ability the same as you would want somebody to do for you. Translation: if you see that they are obviously hunting an area move on a ways until you find an area to yourself.

If you see another fella and he stops to ask you what you are seeing do what I do and what every other hunter has always done. Lie through your teeth while offerring them a coffee and know they will do the same to you.:D Give them the old nothing is moving not even any sign here on this ridge even if you have three deer hanging in camp.:p
 
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well im not to savey on crown land......had a few years of moose hunting on them up in the dryden area....as a rule of thumb...
i was taught...
if i drive down a road and see others there...... means i was late in getting to a good spot.....
you just move on and find another area..
 
Ok, here's where your dads view likely came from.
Years ago, before road hunters had access to the area where I hunt. The local camps, who all used dogs, kinda had it divided up. We hunted certain sections of bush, and they hunted certain sections.
There were only hunt camps, no individual hunters.
As the years passed, the odd road huter would show up. We'd set up to do a run with the dogs, and ther'd be this guy sitting in the middle of the run.
It totally screwed up what we were trying to do, as it did the hunter who was sitting, and as it did other camps. Pissed off? yup, on both sides. But, we aknowledged that it IS Crown land, it's there for everyone. We just became more careful to make sure there were no such interlopers in the areas we wanted to dog off. If the interloper actually shot a deer being persued by one of our dogs, we would not make any claim on it, in fact we would offer to help drag it out.
Things have changed over the years. Fewer camps use dogs. They are expensive to maintain all year, and take up a big portion of your life. They also get lost causing major heart ache, and lost time searching.
They generally put out more deer for other guys than they do for your own guys.
So with most camps now just sitting, newbies in the bush are less of a problem.
PS: if you can get in with an organized camp, you'll have the time of your life.
 
in areas like here what little crown land you find is usualy full of the typical "old boys" and yes i have run into them on occasions. i always be polite and avoid confrontations. and like it was stated earlier if you get to a decent spot and someones there move on. if no one is there sit and enjoy it and hunt it if someone shows up and they hassling you simply state this is crown land if you would like i can call a CO to better explain it. but of all the people i have met while on crown land i have only ever run across one group of asshats.
and to answer your question yes new hunters do quite often get the shaft by alot of people. thats one of the main reasons why anyone that asks me if they can tag along or get into hunting with me i gladly take them. that way when someone asks them they will do the same "hopefully".
besides what good is having that perfect spot if you have no one to share it with.
tip of advice if your ina blind or stand simply hang an extra blaze hat so its visable to passerbys as a way to let them know your there with out disturbing the area to much
 
Crown land belongs to the public. Try not to park right beside someone else and follow thier tracks in though! Do your scouting and watch for other users. Look at the trees for treestands and ground blinds (don't set up right beside those spots). Have a few options along a road just incase. Eventually you will have a few of "your" spots established and they (hopefully) will be avoided by the "new" hunters.
It only took me 2 years to get my spots. Others may use them, but thats why its public land.
 
I really appreciate all the response's everyone... thank you very much.

The post about the farmer registry was great! The registry is free if you are an OFAH member! What a brilliant idea ...yet so simple. The site is pretty user friendly, just like a posting board. As I am planning to go out for deer season this fall, this will be a big help. There is nothing about farmers needing deer culled off that I have seen yet. But the year is still young.

I still have allot to do with respect to purchase of sized hunting gear and a solid hunting rifle. I stand about 6'7 at 285 lbs, so nothing comes easily to me with regard to sizes.

My plan for later this year is to purchase Remington 7600 synthetic in either .308 or 30-06 for Deer/Moose. Then get out to the range and get some solid shooting time in to become comfortable with the firearm. I will save and hopefully get all the cloths that are necessary for safety, functionality and warmth before the fall season. Then next year, I hope to pick up an Excalibur Exomax and do the same. After that, I might venture into getting a muzzleloader. Having all three will probably aid me if I suck out during rifle season. Besides if the latest episode of "The Angler and Hunter" in any indication, a crossbow might be my new best friend. :D All these are pending sufficient funds making themselves available. If not, I will have to wait a year and keep on dreaming.

I have given some serious though to goose hunting in the fall as well. But that would require another firearm purchase. That is not in the budget because I am pretty picky after getting raped by Milarm last year. I would probably go with e Remington 870 express super magnum. That way I have a solid shotgun for goose, rabbit and even deer if the mood strikes me to become proficient with slug shooting.

For now though you have all given some good advice and given me several directions to go in. I will have to get to work, and make the best use of my time before the tag draw applications are due.

Thank you all again for your responses.

Cheers
Sariel
 
I still have allot to do with respect to purchase of sized hunting gear and a solid hunting rifle. I stand about 6'7 at 285 lbs, so nothing comes easily to me with regard to sizes.
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Seriously, don't get sucked in by the 'need' for camo your first few years. My dad has killed more animals than i can shake a stick at wearing simple wool or fleece pants and a red fleece jacket which he spray painted a few 'tiger stripes' on (i kid you not - just took a can of spray paint and had at 'er. )

As long as you avoid 'blue' colours, and stick to reds and greens, you'll be fine. Movement will give you away, camo or no camo, and sitting still will make you very hard to see regardless.

Another critical point - do NOT wash your hunting clothes in regular detergent. The 'brighteners' are very visible to deer. Use either a brand name hunting laundry detergent or use baking soda only. THAT is far more important than 'camo'.

My plan for later this year is to purchase Remington 7600 synthetic in either .308 or 30-06 for Deer/Moose.
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I use one in 30-06 - heckuvagun.

Keep to the basics. Don't try to get 'fancy' stuff year one, it'll just hurt your budget for no good reason. With clothing - 'quiet' is important. Cloths like wool, fleece, etc don't sound 'human' as much to animals when you walk. Remember - they hear far better than us. Anything that 'scritches' is a no-no.

If you look around you can get your gear pretty darn cheap, and be toasty and warm while you're watching mr buck step out of the woodline oblivious to your presence.

Remember - movement, sound and smell will give you away to a deer long before 'colour' does. Just stick with reds and greens, and avoid blue.
 
Well, I started out like you. I had no friends who hunted, no one in the family to teach me and no land to hunt on. So I read every hunting rag I could find. Then by asking a guy at work, I found out that he was in the same boat as me and we partnered up. That was 6 years ago, now, we hunt on a 100 acre private land, rent out an old shack on a camping ground near by and we have introduced four of our friends to the sport. Now life is sweet and the freezer is full of meat! :) Don't give up on your dream and keep at it, it's really worth it...
 
New hunters will always get the shaft - 'cause they just don't know any better. Why would they? They're new to the sport. As such, they often are led down the garden path by those with a personal agenda.

Is this not the case for anyone who takes on any new endeavor?

I am a little confused about the "organized hunt camps", those who think they have "dibs" on a piece of crown land, and the whole OFHA premise.
 
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Is this not the case for anyone who takes on any new endeavor?
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The BCWF is working at creating an effective 'mentor' program which will hopefully address many of the issues new hunters face. I've spent more than one evening over a coffee at white spot going over maps and methods and the regulation synopsis with new hunters, giving them enough info to get out in the field and take an honest crack at it, but it needs to happen on a large scale if we're going to increase our numbers.

But no matter how much help newbies get, it takes time to develop your own areas, skills and so on. That's not 'getting the shaft' - that's 'earning your stripes' :D
 
John Y Cannuck said:
Ok, here's where your dads view likely came from.
Years ago, before road hunters had access to the area where I hunt. The local camps, who all used dogs, kinda had it divided up. We hunted certain sections of bush, and they hunted certain sections.
There were only hunt camps, no individual hunters.
As the years passed, the odd road huter would show up. We'd set up to do a run with the dogs, and ther'd be this guy sitting in the middle of the run.
It totally screwed up what we were trying to do, as it did the hunter who was sitting, and as it did other camps. Pissed off? yup, on both sides. But, we aknowledged that it IS Crown land, it's there for everyone. We just became more careful to make sure there were no such interlopers in the areas we wanted to dog off. If the interloper actually shot a deer being persued by one of our dogs, we would not make any claim on it, in fact we would offer to help drag it out.
Things have changed over the years. Fewer camps use dogs. They are expensive to maintain all year, and take up a big portion of your life. They also get lost causing major heart ache, and lost time searching.
They generally put out more deer for other guys than they do for your own guys.
So with most camps now just sitting, newbies in the bush are less of a problem.
PS: if you can get in with an organized camp, you'll have the time of your life.
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I agree 100% with John Y C.
Except to add a lot of rural hunt camps are also based on family farm property. For 100 yrs they shared the crown between & around the farms by agreeing on who hunted which chunks & where "camp" lines were drawn. For all those yrs very few problems came from another camp "tresspassing" on anothers claimed land. There's still a lot of that today in rural Ont. It's is a little annoying to run a chase thru a bush & have a few unknowns start blasting at the deer in the middle of the chase. It also happens a lot when all of a sudden new hunting country is opened up by a logging road that previusly a camp had hunted exclusively because they took the time to cut bush trails into it. Now some city slicker hunter is sitting on the best watch with his $50,000 SUV sitting beside him or worse blocking the trail:(
It is crown land & yes anybody has a right to hunt it, but when you show up in some really good looking spot you might find it hard to get your deer with 12 camp hunters hunting the same 1 acre you are all of a sudden :runaway:

To John YC; if your spending that much time looking for dogs your doing it the wrong way! We spend exactly 0 hrs this year or last or last..last looking for dogs! The key is to use small beagles that are also house pets:) They love to chase the deer but also love their couch! They usely keep their chases shorter & always come back to the dog man because they would much rather spend the night on the camp couch with a meal in their belly than a night in the bush.:) I always ask what possible reason would a chain dog have to hurry back to it's owner:confused:

My humble opinion of course:p but it works for a few camps in this area:)
 
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