Do you own a Leader Carbine?

Jayne

Jayne

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
16   0   0
Location
Ottawa
Hi all,

The Liberals did a lot of ####ty things while they were in office. One thing was the prohibition of many semi-automatic rifles for no other reason than they looked scary. One prohibited rifle I have always been interested in was the Leader Carbine by Dynamic Systems (later Australian Automatic Arms).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leader_Dynamics_Series_T2_MK5

I have always been fascinated with this rifle. It is not particularly special. There are many rifles before or since that are better. However, I remember reading about it when I was in my younger, more impressionable days and it seems to have stuck with me for some reason.

In addition, it is one of the rarer production rifles in the world.

I know that it is now a prohibited weapon, so you can't buy them unless you have a 12.4 or 12.5 exemption (which I don't have) and you can't even shoot it since the CFOs won't give you an ATT.

I was wondering how many Leader's are there in Canada (apparently only about 2000 made it in to the US before they prohibited it)?

I would like to hear from people who have actually fired and handled them?

And (wishing out loud here) if there is someone in the Toronto - Ottawa - Montreal corridor who actually has one, I would love to have a look at one.

I would like to hear from other interested CGN members.

- Jayne
 
The leader carbine wasn't that great a rifle. It had quality control issues. The American gun press though that the ar15 was better value.
 
The initial rifles produced by Leader Dynamics had issues. The later rifles produced by Australian Automatic Arms had much better quality control. According to several articles I have read, the civilian versions produced by AAA didn't have any major problems.

A video of the weapon being assembled and disassembled.

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/rifles/australian-automatic-arms-sac/
http://www.forgottenweapons.com/leader-dynamics-t2-mkv-video/

The second video has many more comments, including some from the designer of the rifle (Charles St George).

Shooting the rifle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkLJgG4R_0o

http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=12748

http://olegvolk.net/blog/2011/06/12/good-time-at-the-range/


- Jayne
 
Last edited:
You know, I love this rifle. They took the already amazing AR18 and made it even cheaper to manufacture. Throw in CNC machining and an updated verison of this gun could be a great little Canadian made utility rifle.
 
Hi Armedsask,

My thoughts exactly. Unfortunately, the Liberals screwed us and banned "The firearm of the design commonly known as the Leader Mark Series Auto Rifle, and any variant or modified version of it." (Prohibited Weapons Order No. 13, in effect since January 1, 1995).

Humorously, they also banned "The firearm of the design commonly known as the Heckler and Koch (HK) Model G11 rifle, and any variant or modified version of it." Seriously, the G11???? Did they seriously think, gun owners were secretly importing a very rare, EXPERIMENTAL caseless rifle only in the trial stage with the German armed forces? Who were the people writing these lists?

Back to the Leader...

I was thinking about this last night. With modern manufacturing techniques, I think you could really get the price down. I even thought of a marketing strategy... Say you could get the price of the rfle down to $250, you would have an ad with a guy with a top of the line AR-15 variant "This rifle with sights and accessories is $2000. For that price, you could have EIGHT Leader carbines. They aren't pretty, but they work. The perfect rifle for those extra friends who show up on your doorstep without a gun." (A definite market slant towards preppers).

I would even go further, sell them disassembled in sealed plastic tube with three 30rd magazines and 180 rds of ammunition.

I think there would be a definite market for a very simple, cheap, reliable rifle that uses the same ammo and magazines as an M-16, at 1/6 to 1/8th the price.

Anyway, just me dreaming...

That being said, Charles St George (the gun's designer) said "I am planning to re introduce the Leader T2 next year and it will be manufactured in the US with a very attractive Price." (Oct 16, 2011).

Sadly, thanks to Jean Chrétien, even if they do re-enter production, we will not be allowed to import them....

- Jayne
 
Hey man, if you can come up with something similar, I would buy one. Hell, if you made them cheap enough, I would buy several (for my friends who have told me... "If the the SHTF, I am coming to your house.")

- Jayne
 
Hi all,

I am still looking for anyone who actually owns a Leader T2 Mk 5. Has anyone actually shot one? Are there any in Canada?

- Jayne
 
Hi all,

I am bumping this thread one last time to see if there is anyone out there with a Leader T2 Mk5. I am curious what it is like to shoot, how it handles, and how reliable it is. If the government prohibited it, you would think there was at least one in the country.

- Jayne
 
Sorry I dont own one but this sparked some interests from me as he also developed the Bushmaster M17. So would it it be possible to import one of those today?
 
Hi Twyeh,

Unfortunately, both the Leader T2 Mk5 and the Bushmaster M17 (and all variants) are prohibited by name. There is no chance of importing them. Even if you did happen to own one from before the prohibition was put in place, the CFOs will not issue you an ATT to take them to a range.

:(

- Jayne
 
Jayne said:
Hi Twyeh,

Unfortunately, both the Leader T2 Mk5 and the Bushmaster M17 (and all variants) are prohibited by name. There is no chance of importing them. Even if you did happen to own one from before the prohibition was put in place, the CFOs will not issue you an ATT to take them to a range.

:(

- Jayne
Click to expand...

I realize this is a necro thread, but according to whom is the Bushmaster M17s prohibited? I looked at the prohibited list, and there is no reference to the rifle. I would like one.
 
Jayne said:
Humorously, they also banned "The firearm of the design commonly known as the Heckler and Koch (HK) Model G11 rifle, and any variant or modified version of it." Seriously, the G11???? Did they seriously think, gun owners were secretly importing a very rare, EXPERIMENTAL caseless rifle only in the trial stage with the German armed forces? Who were the people writing these lists?

- Jayne
Click to expand...
The word is that the list was compiled by simply thumbing thru a copy of Gun Digest and X-ing out the guns they didnt like the looks of.
Really.

Back to your original question, I recall seeing one in a gunstore in Surrey BC many years ago. So at least one was in Canada once.
 
Another good reason to scrap the whole classification portion of the act...when this rifle and the Armalite are under 2 different headings, it's very clear there is no real rhyme or reason to have the categories in the first place, other than to make our lives difficult.
 
image_zpsae549d06.jpg


image_zps5d33061d.jpg
 
There were a couple in the country that I know of. I examined one. I have to say I was underwhelmed, but it's a good Volkssturm kind of concept. By today's standard you'd pay $600 tops.
 
Hello,

I thought I would revive this old thread one more time to ask again...is there anyone in southern Ontario or western Quebec who owns one of these rifles? I would really like to see one up close. I realise, as a prohibited rifle, you can't actually shoot them, but if someone has one collecting dust in their safe, I would love to buy you a coffee and examine it.

PM me if you can help.

Thanks

- Jayne
 
Had one. I think it was of poor quality. It broke a firing pin early in its life (less than 1000 rds). Internals reminded me somewhat of the AR180. Cheaply made stamped metal construction; cheaply made (and almost appeared to be hand bent) carry handle/sight handle. Pretty light; underwhelming accuracy (any run of the mill AR would shoot better); ergonomically less than average with an off felt shouldering position.

All in all, if you had any experience with any decent rifle platform, you'd be terribly unimpressed.

Sold it for $300 after the 2nd firing pin broke and I was looking at machining my own (and couldn't be bothered)

If you have never held or fired one, you haven't missed anything.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom