Documented Cases of Gun "Blow-ups"
- Thread starter Andy
- Start date
Yes, absolute BS, as I have two. Was told to leave the range by the range officer who is a gunsmith for firing non-compatable and unsafe ammo inn my 2A1. Then at another range I belong to I was told the same thing by the RO.
Just was wondering if there was something I was missing or if these know-it-alls with their $1,000.00 custom rifles were Enfield experts.
I've NEVER seen a carcano that blew up. I saw Andy's Eaton's carcano after firing, if I recall, a whole case full of bullseye in it. Aside from extractor damage and a completely molten case head, the rifle looked undammaged.
Grenaded Ljungmans, on the other hand, are almost as common as sporterized Long Lees
Grenaded Ljungmans, on the other hand, are almost as common as sporterized Long Lees
gunpaq said:
I suspect they thought you were using a .303 converted to 7.62 which WOULD be unsafe. Most don;t know about the specific 2A1 variant. Less than 200 were ever imported to Canada, so it's quasi-excusable. If an RO told me that I'd tell him to go un-f@ck himself. It's my face behind the bolt, not his.
Ljungman AG42B Failures
Andy, I haven't had a Ljungman for 20+ years, but coincidently I bought one last week. In my previous rifle I shot all surplus and do not recall any problems; I just sold it because a guy wanted it and I had my eye on something else. You know the rest of the story.
I carefully fired my new one recently with some necksized loads I use in my M38, again no problems. It's a load that gives good accuracy, neither hot nor wimpy. What concerns me though is the specs of the once reloaded, now twice fired Federal brass. Measured when unfired, the base diameters were approximately 0.475"; now twice fired they are 0.476". This is roughly halfway between the 0.480" 6.5 Swede specification listed by Speer #10 and Barnes, Cartridges of the World 4th ed., and the 8x57/30-06 family specs given by Sierra 5th ed., Hornady, Speer et.al. as 0.469"-0.470". The issue of American brass makers undersizing this cartridge's head dimensions has been discussed elsewhere, so I will not say more.
What I am interested in is a poll question asking if any of the KB'd Ljungmans did so with Swedish surplus, or did they fail with either American factory ammo or handloads.
Andy, I haven't had a Ljungman for 20+ years, but coincidently I bought one last week. In my previous rifle I shot all surplus and do not recall any problems; I just sold it because a guy wanted it and I had my eye on something else. You know the rest of the story.
I carefully fired my new one recently with some necksized loads I use in my M38, again no problems. It's a load that gives good accuracy, neither hot nor wimpy. What concerns me though is the specs of the once reloaded, now twice fired Federal brass. Measured when unfired, the base diameters were approximately 0.475"; now twice fired they are 0.476". This is roughly halfway between the 0.480" 6.5 Swede specification listed by Speer #10 and Barnes, Cartridges of the World 4th ed., and the 8x57/30-06 family specs given by Sierra 5th ed., Hornady, Speer et.al. as 0.469"-0.470". The issue of American brass makers undersizing this cartridge's head dimensions has been discussed elsewhere, so I will not say more.
What I am interested in is a poll question asking if any of the KB'd Ljungmans did so with Swedish surplus, or did they fail with either American factory ammo or handloads.
You can add me to the list of people who have seen an AG42B KB.
In this particular instance the rifle can’t be faulted. The shooter left his magazine at home but insisted on shooting anyway. Despite warnings from myself and one other shooter he loaded the rounds directly into the chamber and tripped the breach-block release and let it slam home on the chambered round. On his third round of the day the breach-block wouldn’t close. Instead of checking the rifle over he just kept trying to re-insert the round and allow the breach-block to slam home. After a few try’s the round went off. The bullet struck the ground about 15 feet in front of the firing-line. The breach-block was blown back and couldn’t be closed and the rifle couldn’t be disassembled as everything had locked up. He was using some very OLD Dominion 160gr’s. I suspect the Rifle ended up being a right off but I’m not sure as the shooter is very evasive when asked about the incident. All in all a classic case of a Slam Fire.
In this particular instance the rifle can’t be faulted. The shooter left his magazine at home but insisted on shooting anyway. Despite warnings from myself and one other shooter he loaded the rounds directly into the chamber and tripped the breach-block release and let it slam home on the chambered round. On his third round of the day the breach-block wouldn’t close. Instead of checking the rifle over he just kept trying to re-insert the round and allow the breach-block to slam home. After a few try’s the round went off. The bullet struck the ground about 15 feet in front of the firing-line. The breach-block was blown back and couldn’t be closed and the rifle couldn’t be disassembled as everything had locked up. He was using some very OLD Dominion 160gr’s. I suspect the Rifle ended up being a right off but I’m not sure as the shooter is very evasive when asked about the incident. All in all a classic case of a Slam Fire.
Now you guys have got me all wierded out about using my AG42.
I bought it recently, haven't used it much, maybe one box of Igman ammo.
I also have a Hakim, which is a decendant of the AG42, and I have fired many rounds, perhaps 1000 or more, through it.
I bought it recently, haven't used it much, maybe one box of Igman ammo.
I also have a Hakim, which is a decendant of the AG42, and I have fired many rounds, perhaps 1000 or more, through it.
tootall said:Now you guys have got me all wierded out about using my AG42.
I bought it recently, haven't used it much, maybe one box of Igman ammo.
I also have a Hakim, which is a decendant of the AG42, and I have fired many rounds, perhaps 1000 or more, through it.
do you still have any Igman brass left? Have a look down the case and check the size of the flash-hole.
If it is like mine, it is vewwy-vewwy small...
This caused variable results on my M/96, and seemed to be temperature-sensitive. On the plus side, it seems to cause the rounds to have less pressure, since I would often not even seal the chamber and get sooty cases.I think the real problem with the AG42 originally is that it does not have any gas adjustment. So ammo that is too hot will batter the action in no time. If I was to buy one, I would likely look for one with a bubba-adjustment added to it. Or, have one installed. It does not seem too complex, and that way you can get around its ammo-finickyness. Plus, you can adjust it so it is easier on the action, and it will no longer throw brass into the next timezone
Problem with the AG2B is the fact that it uses a system with no gas adjustment, along with a short gas tube: it is possible to over-power the system, leading to rapid extractions, firing-pins drifting into primers, high gas-port pressures and so forth..... ALL avoidable. Port-pressure variations (high/low pressure, long/short duration) lead to most of the problems with gas guns.
While working on a newspaper on the East Coast a number of years ago, I did a lot of gun articles, usually around hunting season. Fellow from around the Bay brought me a Number 4 that "blew up". I got photos, did a pretty careful examination. Bolt body was split lengthways but held in the action. I unscrewed the empty from the front of the bolt body. Rifle had been fired with the bolt-head MISSING. Real smart doctor at Gander Hospital saved the guy's eyesight. I would think this type of "accident" rather avoidable.
As to the infamous Cooey Carcano, I picked one up at a gun show "just in case" I needed another Carcano (I already had half a dozen and like them). What really put me off firing the thing was the little set-screw that seems to be holding the 2-piece barrel together, just ahead of the chamber. Am I a wuss for this?
While working on a newspaper on the East Coast a number of years ago, I did a lot of gun articles, usually around hunting season. Fellow from around the Bay brought me a Number 4 that "blew up". I got photos, did a pretty careful examination. Bolt body was split lengthways but held in the action. I unscrewed the empty from the front of the bolt body. Rifle had been fired with the bolt-head MISSING. Real smart doctor at Gander Hospital saved the guy's eyesight. I would think this type of "accident" rather avoidable.
As to the infamous Cooey Carcano, I picked one up at a gun show "just in case" I needed another Carcano (I already had half a dozen and like them). What really put me off firing the thing was the little set-screw that seems to be holding the 2-piece barrel together, just ahead of the chamber. Am I a wuss for this?
smellie said:
I've seen them apart first hand. That set screw is NOT holding the barrel together. The barrel is threaded into the stub knox form of the old 6.5 barrel. The screw is just to prevent the new barrel from turning loose over time, but the barrel threads are the bearing points that soak up the pressures of firing, not the set screw.
FWIW, despite all the gunshow lore, I've never seen ANY carcano that K-B'd.
Not even a Cooey-Eatons one.
I wonder if it's only the Swedeish rifles that were a problem? They were obviously good enough for the Egyptians to resort to the costs of buying machinery to build fullsized rifles in 8x57 and mini rifles in 7.62x39. I've owned several of each off and on but never heard of or experienced a problem with either that wasn't operator related. The bolts were properly bored for the fireing pins, I checked that first before even thinking about fireing them. I personally saw several of them in very active use, under severe conditions and they worked flawlessly, even though their users weren't exactly diligent about their care, other than to make sure they meticulously cleaned the bore. In some cases the gas tubes would leave a little puff of rusty dust on the bolt and carrier, but they still funtioned as they were designed to, even in the mud and dirt of Africa. Africans don't seem to like to oil their rifles used under stressful conditions as it retains the dirt. Maybe the Swedes worked the bugs out of them before selling the rights and tooling. bearhunter
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bearhunter said:
Egypt before getting the Hakim (Their version of the AG-42) was in the process of buying the FN49, the Hakim was easy enough for them to build and much cheaper then the FN49 as the FN49 was a expensive rifle to manufature at the time.
(Hense why they later made the FAL not only to use the 7.62x51mm NATO but to cut the cost of making the FN49. ) Plus you have to remember that the issue of the non-adjustable gas system means nothing to a millitary rifle that they can make ammo that will suit the rifles needs unlike commerical or reloaded ammo The Mini-Hakim aka the Rasheed was probably built as a stop gap between adopting another weapon and trying to get as much back from their investment in the plants to produce the Hakim as possible I'd suspect.
Someday I plan on buying a AG-42 eventhough they seem to like to blow up according to this thread.
PS I hope what I said makes sense.
Dimitri
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I find the Lee Enfield unnerving to shoot, at least for me, because it seems there are only 2-5mm of the bolt face/head in the chamber when you fire. Maybe other milsurps are like this too, I guess, but don't have an "open" bolt design so you can see this.
Unregistered said:
It's totally safe. The Enfield is this way b/c the barrel is set far back in the receiver. On a Mauser, for example, the barrel is farther in the receiver because you need room for the front locking lugs. Enfields avoid this by having hte locking lugs on the back or the bolt like a Remington 788.
The only portion of the .303 case which protrudes from the barrel is the rim. It is solid. The solid portion of the casehead extends further into the chamber. If you have access to a barrel from a rifle with a coned breech, drop a case into the chamber, and note how much more protrudes from the chamber.
not a milsurp gun, but my buddy's Taurus 9mm (the Baretta 92 clone) blew up in his hands (I was a few feet away at the time). I'm surprised he didn't lose any fingers.
The gun was brand new and we were shooting Aguila (sp?) ammo... probably an over-charged round. I've never bought that ammo since.
The gun was brand new and we were shooting Aguila (sp?) ammo... probably an over-charged round. I've never bought that ammo since.
