Dodgy M-14S front sight?

[rdelliott]

I got out to the range today with my second 2007 Marstar M-14. I got out with the first one last weekend, and was revoltingly pleased by it; everything worked fine except a couple of failures to feed which were entirely my fault.

The second one had a couple of issues. First, I had a couple of failures to feed; the soft-pointed bullets got hung up on the feed notches. This problem went away when I changed magazines and let the op-rod fly as prescribed, so I'm thinking it was just operator error again.

However, doing the battle zeroing, I found that the rifle was shooting way, way low. I had to run the rear aperture way, way up in order to get it on zero, much farther than I did the other one. Close examination of the front sight revealed that one ear was bent, and the machining didn't look as crisp as it did on my first M-14.

I'm thinking that the problem might be that the front sight blade is too tall, and that welfare solution would be to Dremel it down a ways. Could I be wrong, though, and is there something else that might be causing it?

 

[Grizzlypeg]

How many clicks up from bottom to zero at 100 yards? Mine takes 14 clicks up from bottom to zero at 200 yards.

Do the front sights look a different height comparing the two rifles to each other?

I had a bent ear on one sight. I guess it got damaged during assembly or handling.

If the sights are the same, there isn't any crazy amount of tension between the barrel ring and the stock ferule, such that its really tensioning the barrel downwards?

 

[G37]

STOP!

If you dremmel it you will be making your problem worse... Front sight = Opposite & Rear Sight = Same (regarding the direction you want the bullet to go).

So... you want to raise your POI right? The front sight needs to be Higher (not lower).

Good luck!

Did you hammer off your FH without first grinding down the welds or is it 100% stock? If you hammered the hell out of it to remove it you could have bent something

If not, the Front FH/Sight assembly on the 2007's is pretty bad. At the most recent BC M14 Clinic about 4 of the rifles had canted/uneven front sights.

 

[canuckchap]

Umm... NO...

POI goes UP, if you lower the front sight height. OPPOSITE
I believe thats even covered in the CFC course book!!

Here is a brief description of how much to take off.

I'm certain that this doesn't apply in your case but: for the inexperienced
shooter, have someone who is experienced shoot the gun to verify that the gun
shoots low: hate to have you adjust the sights to compensate for a flinch.
It's been done, you know.

If it shoots too low, your front sight is too high. It's simple enough to
take care of the problem once you know how much to take off if you have or
can borrow some dial calipers. First, are you sighting in for 25 yards or
50 yards? Let's say 25 yards (=900 inches). How low is the impact? Let's
say 1.5 inches. How far from the back of your front sight to the back of
your rear sight? Let's say 6.5 inches. Then the amount you want to remove
from your front sight is (6.5/900)*1.5 = .011 inches. Now wrap the calipers
around the muzzle so you can read the height from the bottom of the slide to
the top of the front sight. Subtract .011" from that figure to get your
desired height. Now get a smooth flat file about 1.5" wide and 12 inches long
and tape shim stock to the first four inches of the file nearest the file's
handle. This is the end of the file you rest on the rear sight so that
when you whittle on the top of the front sight, the top of the front sight
will be coplanar with the top of the rear sight.

STOP!

If you dremmel it you will be making your problem worse... Front sight = Opposite & Rear Sight = Same (regarding the direction you want the bullet to go).

So... you want to raise your POI right? The front sight needs to be Higher (not lower).

Good luck!

EDIT:
Did you hammer off your FH without first grinding down the welds or is it 100% stock? If you hammered the hell out of it to remove it you could have bent something

If not, the Front FH/Sight assembly on the 2007's is pretty bad. At the most recent BC M14 Clinic about 4 of the rifles had canted/uneven front sights.

 

[45ACPKING]

as G37 mentions.... we have seen a lot of new norcs with flashhider front sight assemblies that are in my opinion.... useless.
another one of my opinions hehehe is that the entire norc sight set up should be ditched for rear garand or usgi m14 sights and some other option for the front sight flash hider. yer #### won't fall off if you don't swap it out... but sure gives piece of mind knowing it's not junk like so many i have been seeing on line and in person. swapping out the sights is a small investment compared to the of ammo one will need to shoot to fandangle thier norc sights into workin just right.
again just my opinons and everyone has one

 

[rdelliott]

STOP!

If you dremmel it you will be making your problem worse... Front sight = Opposite & Rear Sight = Same (regarding the direction you want the bullet to go).

So... you want to raise your POI right? The front sight needs to be Higher (not lower).

Good luck!

EDIT:
Did you hammer off your FH without first grinding down the welds or is it 100% stock? If you hammered the hell out of it to remove it you could have bent something

If not, the Front FH/Sight assembly on the 2007's is pretty bad. At the most recent BC M14 Clinic about 4 of the rifles had canted/uneven front sights.

Not sure I get you here. If front is opposite and rear the same, and I raise the rear to raise POI, should I not lower the front blade to raise POI?

Agreed that the FHs on mine are pretty rough; the flash hider slots are milled-out off-center, the front sights are off-center... upgrades are in their future for sure.

 

[rdelliott]

How many clicks up from bottom to zero at 100 yards? Mine takes 14 clicks up from bottom to zero at 200 yards.

Do the front sights look a different height comparing the two rifles to each other?

I had a bent ear on one sight. I guess it got damaged during assembly or handling.

If the sights are the same, there isn't any crazy amount of tension between the barrel ring and the stock ferule, such that its really tensioning the barrel downwards?

Lost count on the clicks; the aperture is almost all the way at the high end of its travel, and is sticking way out above the ears.

It looks like one of the front sight ears got whanged in a little, yeah.

Will check ferrule tension. Thanks!

 

[45ACPKING]

this is the sight going on my m14s build.... usgi with hooded aperture. and a smith gas lock front

 

[Grizzlypeg]

this is the sight going on my m14s build.... usgi with hooded aperture. and a smith gas lock front

That's just what I'm going to order. For now, I've filed my front sight down narrower and reblued it. Might weld up and redrill the norinco rear sight to 060 and see how I like that. Cost me nothing until I get around to ordering a NM rear sight.

 

[rdelliott]

this is the sight going on my m14s build.... usgi with hooded aperture. and a smith gas lock front

How much will one of those babies set you back?

 

[G37]

*Doh! My bad - I was writing in a hurry

Yeah... Front Sight Up = Lower POI (I've got to slow down )

 

[45ACPKING]

It is an HRA m14NM hooded aperture rear sight. According to some u.s. guys.... it's worth a small fortune.
I'm not sure what current prices are for a sight like this..... but the last NM usgi rear sight i saw on ebay fetched 275.00 u.s. back when our dollar was worth WAY less.

 

[Winz]

It is an HRA m14NM hooded aperture rear sight. According to some u.s. guys.... it's worth a small fortune.
I'm not sure what current prices are for a sight like this..... but the last NM usgi rear sight i saw on ebay fetched 275.00 u.s. back when our dollar was worth WAY less.

45ACPKING,

you had mentioned having trouble with your rear sights in the other post ( http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=217682 )

Was the set as shown here?

Are you using just the NM aperture or is it entirely a NM rear sight assembly. If the latter, your problems working the windage may be due to the standard 1MOA serration cuts for a regular sight rather than 1/2 MOA for NM.

 

[45ACPKING]

nope..... the entire rifle in the pic..... minus the receiver heel, is on it's way.... should be in my mitts by friday

 

[Winz]

nope..... the entire rifle in the pic..... minus the receiver heel, is on it's way.... should be in my mitts by friday

Do you feel it 45ACPKING? Many an eye is burning a hole in you through the envious death stare over this interweb thing.

 

[45ACPKING]

hehehehe sorry guys i don't mean to gloat

winz, about the 1/2 moa click thing... do you mean the nm receiver is cut this way and the norc cut in 1 moa? or is strictly the sight? if it's the receiver needing to be in 1/2 moa clicks... i might have to get one of those discs from fulton

 

[Grizzlypeg]

hehehehe sorry guys i don't mean to gloat

winz, about the 1/2 moa click thing... do you mean the nm receiver is cut this way and the norc cut in 1 moa? or is strictly the sight? if it's the receiver needing to be in 1/2 moa clicks... i might have to get one of those discs from fulton

It's the serrations on the receiver that are different between the 1 moa and 1/2 moa. The elevation disks are cut with 1 moa on one side and 1/2 moa on the other. Apparently its best to use the 1/2 moa side only with an elevation dial made for it.

 

[Winz]

hehehehe sorry guys i don't mean to gloat

winz, about the 1/2 moa click thing... do you mean the nm receiver is cut this way and the norc cut in 1 moa? or is strictly the sight? if it's the receiver needing to be in 1/2 moa clicks... i might have to get one of those discs from fulton

Sorry, I reckon I misspoke. The bad thing about being on the internet at night.

I don't believe you need the disk, nor is it recommended per se.

The elevation serrations on the receiver should be ok for 1MOA click. The hooded aperture has a turn up/down to allow for 1/2MOA changes. ie need 1/2 MOA change on elevation, turn the hooded aperture up or down rather than on the elevation knob.

The WINDAGE KNOB is shaped differently and allows for 1/2 MOA changes on it's own.

You should probably check the shape of the cuts to make sure they are properly engaging on the receiver, otherwise you're likely to not get noticeable clicks.

The elevation knob dipple should be the same assuming good condition.

 

[Winz]

Regarding the elevation repair disk, I reckon you are supposed to epoxy it using the 1/2 minute side to the receiver and 1MOA to the outside.

One more thing: What I said above has to do with the standard USGI stuff.

I have no idea if 1/2 receiver serrations and/or specific elevations had been done by SAI or other.

 

[BongoBob]

It is an HRA m14NM hooded aperture rear sight. According to some u.s. guys.... it's worth a small fortune.
I'm not sure what current prices are for a sight like this..... but the last NM usgi rear sight i saw on ebay fetched 275.00 u.s. back when our dollar was worth WAY less.

You can order the whole set up, front and rear NM sights (w/hooded rear aperture) from Springfield Armory for $160.00 US.