Does a 300 Weatherby have an advantage?

[kombi1976]

Ummm......what's the REAL WORLD?

 

[MTM]

I have owned a couple of each, actually several WMs and 3-4 WBYs. No short mags, the WBY definatly has an advantage. It will launch 200 Noslers at 3100. Whether it makes any difference on game is questionable. If you're useing a full size action you may as well fill it up.

 

[stubblejumper]

I have owned a 300wby but now own two 300ultramags.If you are going to put up with the extra recoil,you might as well have another 100fps of so over the wby.The cost of brass is the same and factory loads are lower priced.

 

[Andy]

I fell for another meaningless poll (slow day at work - heading for beers in a couple of hours)

Of course the 300 WSM is better than the 300 Win which is better than the 300 Wby in "real world situations". We all know that whatever round we own is the best and we can justify it. Besides, the 300 WSM is short!

Here's the 30 cal hierarchy:

The 30/30 is better than the 300 Savage which is better than the 308, which is better than the 30/06, 300 WSM, 300 Win, 300 Wby, 300 RUM, and 30/378 Wby.

 

[Amphibious]

.30 cals are boring.

 

[Preacher]

In the real world -- increased recoil -- increased expense -- increased muzzle blast -- very slight increase in terminal ballistics.

Worth it??

IMHO -- No.

YMMV.

 

[dan belisle]

I fell for another meaningless poll (slow day at work - heading for beers in a couple of hours)

Of course the 300 WSM is better than the 300 Win which is better than the 300 Wby in "real world situations". We all know that whatever round we own is the best and we can justify it. Besides, the 300 WSM is short!

Here's the 30 cal hierarchy:

The 30/30 is better than the 300 Savage which is better than the 308, which is better than the 30/06, 300 WSM, 300 Win, 300 Wby, 300 RUM, and 30/378 Wby.

You forgot the 300 Pegasus Andy. - dan

 

[Mystic Precision]

If real world hunting means inside 250yds, why bother with a magnum when the 308/30-06 (and about 50 other cartridges) has proven more then adequate with any NA grass eater.

If real world means 2 sec time of flight, then bigger is better. 200gr bullets are min weights with up to 240gr being desireable. Barrel lengths reach beyond 30" and max velocity is the goal.

Then the Wby is actually a little on the small side...

Jerry

 

[prosper]

All else being equal...

Give a 300win the same freebore as a 300 wby, then see what's what.

 

[todbartell]

Let me ask you this Tod...Which would you feel more secure holding in your hands facing an aggressive 1000 lb bear, a 300 Win with a 220 gr bullet or a 300 Weatherby with that same bullet.

300 Win Mag

pushing the same bullet faster wont really increase killing power, especially at close range

for that matter, aggressive grizz, and I only had a 30 caliber rifle, it wouldnt really matter if it was a 30-06 or 300 Wby

also, the average hunter will probably be more comfortable shooting his 300 Win Mag due to more practice and range time, compared to the higher cost of reloading/factory ammo 300 Wby

 

[boonerbuck]

pushing the same bullet faster wont really increase killing power, especially at close range

Velocity = energy. More energy pushing a controled expansion bullet means more killing power on 1000 lbs of mass coming at you. You have to drive the bullet lengthwise. How do you ignore that?

for that matter, aggressive grizz, and I only had a 30 caliber rifle, it wouldnt really matter if it was a 30-06 or 300 Wby

I beg to differ. It's your life in your hands. You are going to tell me you would not feel a little safer if that 1000 lbs was facing the Weatherby over the 30 06? Why stop there then? How about that little 260 of yours? Great DG rifle.

also, the average hunter will probably be more comfortable shooting his 300 Win Mag due to more practice and range time, compared to the higher cost of reloading/factory ammo 300 Wby

That's hardly all things being equal. We would have to assume that the shooter shoots his Weatherby as well as his Winchester. Sorry, you set the stage with that one.

 

[Salty]

The problem with Weatherby's is as stated the bloody cost to feed the things. I mean unless you get off on paying the better part of $2 a piece per brass and dumping 70 plus grains of powder into the thing to get your bullet going its probably not a wise choice for the modest "improvement" in performance of the other 300s.

But, every now and then you gotta say WTF and do something kind of silly, which I did last year and bought a 270 weatherby. Once you take the plunge and hopefully end up with some brass and dies on the deal, it is kind of fun to play with Mr. Weatherby's line of powder pig screamers

So, in answer to all this I refuse to vote.

 

[1899]

Interesting test results that Nosler published in their reloading manual.

.308 Win, 165gr Partition, impact velocity 2450fps.
penetration in ballistic medium - 17.0" retained weight = 127.7gr

.300 Win mag 165gr Partition, impact velocity 3,111fps
penetration in ballistic medium - "16.5" retained weight = 110.2gr

Again, this is just armchair yapping, but I suspect that both of these bullets would go a similar depth into an animal, but the higher velocity bullet may have a bigger wound channel. There is over a 650fps differnce between these two. There is at best 150-200fps advantage with the wby over the wm. I really doubt there would be any difference.

 

[todbartell]

there ya go

more impact speed does nothing to help bullet penetration. its long been known that high sectional density and modest velocity will penetrate very deep (ie 6.5x55 w/ 160s, 7x57 w/ 175s, & 303 w/ 215s). somehow this thread has turned into another grizzy defense topic

a handy 308 carbine or 30-06 would be a better tool for the 'job' when a pissed bear is gonna get you, than a 26" heavy 300 Wby.

It's your life in your hands. You are going to tell me you would not feel a little safer if that 1000 lbs was facing the Weatherby over the 30 06? Why stop there then? How about that little 260 of yours? Great DG rifle.

I'd feel safer having a 338-06 or 35 Whelen in my hands, than I would a 300 Wby. You can have your speed, Id take moderate velocity and heavy-for-caliber bullets anyday. You desperate attempt to compare a 260 Remington to a 300 Wby has little relevance in a 300 Magnum debate turned bear defense thread That being said, loaded with premium 140s or 155-160 gr. round noses @ 2400 fps, it would be a hell of alot better than a bow and arrow My friend stopped a grizz charge last year with a shot from a smaller 7mm cartridge. Shot placement beats impact energy, once again.
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[prosper]

+1.

More energy is useless if the projectile is already passing entirely through your target. The projectile's remaining velocity after passing through the critter is simply wasted energy.

 

[boonerbuck]

We were talking about all things equal. The same 30 cal bullet shooting out of a 300 Win or a 300 WBY, you made no mention of the model of rifles in your opening post. I don't see how the sectional densities from other calibres fits into the argument. You are now throwing many other calibres into the equation and you are selecting carbines and the such. I think only one person has made it a bear defense thread. I never moved past energy, which is on topic. I chose the big griz as an exception...as I already pointed out.

I agree, a handy carbine in a smaller rifle over the big Weatherby for bear defense, or a Guide Gun even. Is that not a rifle topic and not about the calibres in question?

Stay on topic Tod!

 

[boonerbuck]

1899

How much weight retention would the 308 Win shooting a 165 gr X at 2450 fps hold over the 300 Win shooting a 165 gr X at 3111 fps I wonder?

Both would hold over 90% weight retention so I have to figure that the 3111 fps is going to have a lot more penetration through a pile of muscle tissue and big bone. The 2450 might not open up as well neither and I will guarantee you that the wound channel on the 3111 will be way larger.

There's another exception to look at.

It's hard to to say which one out performs the other when you simply look across the board. In the books, the two don't look like much spread but we all know with hand loads all things change and not every rifle gets the same results so there is no clear cut judge and jury.

In the field, all thing are too diverse to judge. Like pointed out earlier, what good is the extra energy if it passes through the animal? This applies to deer but when things get bigger and bullets like the X are used, the energy can be used. Then of course there are big targets at long ranges etc etc..

 

[todbartell]

We were talking about all things equal. The same 30 cal bullet shooting out of a 300 Win or a 300 WBY, you made no mention of the model of rifles in your opening post. I don't see how the sectional densities from other calibres fits into the argument. You are now throwing many other calibres into the equation and you are selecting carbines and the such. I think only one person has made it a bear defense thread. I never moved past energy, which is on topic. I chose the big griz as an exception...as I already pointed out.

I agree, a handy carbine in a smaller rifle over the big Weatherby for bear defense, or a Guide Gun even. Is that not a rifle topic and not about the calibres in question?

Stay on topic Tod!

I was saying that high sectional density and moderate velocity is just as deadly if not more on big critters, than high speed/high SD. Not that a 300 Win is moderate mind you, but a 220 gr. @ 2650 fps kills big mean bears just as quick as a 220 gr. @ 2850 fps. And if you insist on grizzly protection arguements, then yes, a larger bore at slow speed is the way to go.

Impact energy is nice to look at on paper, I agree But for real hunting conditions, including the common 'grizz attacks', I personally dont beleive a 300 Wby has any real advantage over a 300 H&H/WSM/Win Mag There are some disadvantages though

 

[1899]

The only way to settle this is a beer drinking contest.

 

[todbartell]

I guess I win by default
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