Does a 9mm pistol round have enough to drop a deer
- Thread starter cdhunter
- Start date
Still wondering why you would want to. A 9mm? Seriously?- Location
- Okanagan, BC
I'm for entirely ethical hunting, and my personal opinion is that a 9mm doesn't quite have what it takes to kill game the size of deer humanely, and doesn't cut it as "good sport".
You stated that you're looking at 100 yards and even much less, but a 9mm is a bit light, so I doubt that you'll get clean kills with it.
I think you should look for a "real rifle" to do your hunting, maybe even a .223 if you must use a popular type round, but the suggestion that you move up to a .44 magnum is the best comment that I've seen here.
You stated that you're looking at 100 yards and even much less, but a 9mm is a bit light, so I doubt that you'll get clean kills with it.
I think you should look for a "real rifle" to do your hunting, maybe even a .223 if you must use a popular type round, but the suggestion that you move up to a .44 magnum is the best comment that I've seen here.
RememberTheSomme
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
9X19 is a pistol round. That's it. No magical bullet weight/powder burn barrel length going to change that. Leave it at home and use a big-game round's for big-game. If we take the 9mm case, design a rifle around it to take 65,000 chamber pressure and load the most pointed bullet you could find, it's still just too small, and it's still a limp-#### round for Big game.
Now if you are carrying one for self-defense,...... such as in the case of a Wildlife Officer,.. and you were suddenly and ferociously attacked by a big Whitetail buck who refused to comply with your instructions during a routine trailside check,....then by all means its self-defense and in such occurances, any gun is better than no gun at all.
Seriously,...there are many fine choices for novice, smaller statured shooters in lightweight fast handling carbines. From .243 Winchester through the parent .308Win is one route, even the 7.62X39 in a light rifle, an SKS perhaps would make a great start, the other route could be short, lightweight lever guns in .30-30 or 44Mag to name a few. I chose a Marlin 336TS for my wife in .30-30 with a 18.5" barrel and factory 170grains it was pleasant to shoot, but still marginal on deer if recovering one within sight is a priority, a fact I proved several times for myself. The .30-30 by the way, is a powerhouse compared to the 9mmPara ok.
It's great to get our wife's, girlfriends and kids into the sport, because firearms in general and hunting in particular need a big injection of new devotee's, but at the same time,.. we don't want to produce wounded and lost deer for their sake merely based on recoil sensitivity. They need to learn shoot a "deer" rifle properly. Hearing protection on the range is 75% of the way there, and when firing at actual game in the field we all know recoil doesn't matter one GD bit, whatever the caliber. I wouldn't let my wife fire at a moose with an M-1 carbine because she likes the recoil, no more than you should let yours fire at a whitetail buck with a 9mm Pistol.
Now if you are carrying one for self-defense,...... such as in the case of a Wildlife Officer,.. and you were suddenly and ferociously attacked by a big Whitetail buck who refused to comply with your instructions during a routine trailside check,....then by all means its self-defense and in such occurances, any gun is better than no gun at all.
Seriously,...there are many fine choices for novice, smaller statured shooters in lightweight fast handling carbines. From .243 Winchester through the parent .308Win is one route, even the 7.62X39 in a light rifle, an SKS perhaps would make a great start, the other route could be short, lightweight lever guns in .30-30 or 44Mag to name a few. I chose a Marlin 336TS for my wife in .30-30 with a 18.5" barrel and factory 170grains it was pleasant to shoot, but still marginal on deer if recovering one within sight is a priority, a fact I proved several times for myself. The .30-30 by the way, is a powerhouse compared to the 9mmPara ok.
It's great to get our wife's, girlfriends and kids into the sport, because firearms in general and hunting in particular need a big injection of new devotee's, but at the same time,.. we don't want to produce wounded and lost deer for their sake merely based on recoil sensitivity. They need to learn shoot a "deer" rifle properly. Hearing protection on the range is 75% of the way there, and when firing at actual game in the field we all know recoil doesn't matter one GD bit, whatever the caliber. I wouldn't let my wife fire at a moose with an M-1 carbine because she likes the recoil, no more than you should let yours fire at a whitetail buck with a 9mm Pistol.
What about the 9mm cartridge makes you want it for your wife/daughter? If its recoil, there are plenty of options available that are considered more big game capable.
I started a thread awhile ago looking for suggestions to allow me to hunt with my dislocated shoulder was healing and there was some really good ideas put forward. I chose a .243, but there was probably 6-8 viable options.
I started a thread awhile ago looking for suggestions to allow me to hunt with my dislocated shoulder was healing and there was some really good ideas put forward. I chose a .243, but there was probably 6-8 viable options.
It is also true that a deer survives year round in temps ranging from +35c down to -40c and lower without having to put on a jacket. It's very safe to say that a deer is heartier than a human.
Please please for the sake of cruelty to animals, do not try and shoot the deer with a 9mm. Especially in the hands of inexperienced shooters.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Trivia: Did you know that the average .50 calibre reproduction BP rifle (traditional style) recoil impulse with a recommended deer load, has actually less felt recoil than a .243 calibre rifle?
Of course the average "Hawken" rifle weighs quite a bit more too..........
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
if the shot was under 25 yards id use a 9mm but id want to gun shooting one hole groups.
my deer gun for up north is a .303 loaded with a 210gr(roughly) soft nose cast bullet in a lee enfield no 4 mk 1 i dont know what the fps is but its some where inbetween 1400 anf 1600fps(i dont have anything to find out what it really is).
dont worry about fit a gun can be fitted to the person a sks with a sliding stock would be perfict. but i am one to use what he has (that can be anything i could kill a mouse or a early german ww2 tank )
my deer gun for up north is a .303 loaded with a 210gr(roughly) soft nose cast bullet in a lee enfield no 4 mk 1 i dont know what the fps is but its some where inbetween 1400 anf 1600fps(i dont have anything to find out what it really is).
dont worry about fit a gun can be fitted to the person a sks with a sliding stock would be perfict. but i am one to use what he has (that can be anything i could kill a mouse or a early german ww2 tank
)I had no idea and would have lost a bet on that for sure! Your point about rifle weight is dead on though..... my .243 got 'plumped up' to 10lbs as part of the recoil reduction scheme. OP- choose more cartridge umph and more rifle weight to achieve deader animals and happier shooters!
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Ahh so then the .22-250 must be a superior slayer of game compared to say a .45-70, I'll be sure to tell all my pal's to slim down their bear rifles; but for myself I think I'll stick with my old 'n slow .458.
When it comes to gunshot trauma, the order of importance goes first to frontal area, followed by mass and construction (suitable for the impact velocity and target density) then lastly to velocity. Velocity above 2000 fps does little other than flatten trajectory, big game solids, which just keep getting better the faster they go, to the exception; soft points loose efficiency if their impact velocity is too far above or below their performance envelope; in extreme cases of high velocity, penetration is reduced to the extent that a humane kill cannot be made. Without penetration, whatever advantages there might be from high velocity or large frontal area cannot be realized, so a bullet must have the right combination of frontal area, mass and construction and impact velocity at range to be effective on any big game animal.
There you have it. In my opinion, you will be setting yourself up for further disappointment using a 9mm. Perhaps the ladies would benefit from a smaller bolt action in 243 or 7/08? A lever in 44mag/45colt? You don't want the ladies to have a bad experience their first time out either, give them enough gun for a clean kill.
thanks everybody for your Opinions as I stated earlier the 9mm is now a dead idea. One thing that I will continue to look for is and why the jr was considered in the first place was the "fit" of the rifle. To me Coming from a archery background is repeatability. Every time the rifle is shouldered it should naturally go in to place with out the need to reposition the body, if you can accomplish this your chances of successful shot placement increases and we all seem to agree that shot placement is still the most critical factor of the hunt.
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
stock can be cut and fitted so dont worry about fit but a .45 colt lever gun would be good rel low recoild and at the right range (maybe 35-40 yards max) it will punch a hole in a deer (flat point hard cast bullets would be real good)
only thing to remember is just because the barrel is longer does not mean a higher velocity most pistol powders stop burning after 12" thats about where velocity will be at its highest it starts slowing down after that
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
they tend to be on the light side witch with the wrong cartridge with have some recoil. i had the 10ga with a round ball slug that thig did not feel too good
I'm sorry but you're comparing a Handi in 10Ga to these folks possibly getting one that shoots a handgun round up to perhaps .44Mag? There is simply NO basis for comparing the two. One will try to bust the shooter's collarbone while the other will be stout enough to make the shooter smile the first few times and to not even be noticed when shooting at an actual game animal.
Cdhunter, if you can find a Handi Rifle in .44Mag or a Rossi Winchester 92 clone in .44Mag you would have a great deer gun for the ladies to shoot that would be a great option out to as much as 100 yards or so. And if you fit the rifle with a Limbsaver or similar recoil pad none but the most recoil sensitive would in any way flinch at shooting such a setup.
For folks that do not shoot often a single shot break open has a manual of arms that is easy for most anyone to fathom. It doesn't take much to break, load, close then walk around stalking the game and to #### the hammer and fire. I can't imagine a system that is as inherently as safe.
A close second is the lever rifle. As long as they practice lowering the hammer to the safe "half ####" position or using the safety if there is one that's the only real trick to that style.
And Rossi DOES make 16 inch carbine barrelled options that are not only light to carry but short and handy in dense brush conditions.
And let's not forget the moderate recoil .30-30 cartridge from a lever Winchester 94 or Marlin 336. A classic deer cartridge shot from some VERY classic guns. And one that managed to fill freezers or cold rooms literally from the first year it was introduced. Again the rifles that shoot this round are not overly bulky or heavy. And the .30-30 is the sort of rifle round that would be fine for all but the most recoil sensitive folks out there.
Wild_Thing
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- In the thick of it!
My advice would be to take the wife and daughter to a gun shop and let them handle some rifles. My daughter's first rifle deer rifle was a Remington 700 Mountain LSS in .260, the low recoil, quiet report and high accuracy built her confidence enough to be able practice regularly and use it effectively on her first deer that season. Good luck getting that rifle out of her hands after that season!
