I cringe when I hear "If I do my part" in the context of the OP. What does this mean you can pack around an inaccurate rifle because you can shoot really well? In the hunting fields it is most beneficial to have an accurate rifle because you can't always "do your part" due to circumstances like terrain, where the game is standing, if its moving, if you are breathing hard etc. If you can make a 6 inch group at the range or in your back yard you probably wont make a 12 inch group shooting from a tree branch, or a rock or you take a chance on something that's a little out of range when you are exited or out of breath. Most folks I know that can shoot "really well" wont put up with a rifle that wont do "its part".
Does accuracy matter?
- Thread starter Dogleg
- Start date
True, but who always limits themselves to exactly X amount of yards.
I think the real reason that accuracy of a rifle a real issue is so I know when a shot misses it is my fault. If A rifle shoots a six inch group I can shoot poorly and blame it on the rifle and thus develop bad habits. My goto rifle that shoots 1 1/2" at one hundred is not the most accurate rifle in the world but I know how it shoots and it is accurate enough so i don't doubt the rifle when I pull the trigger. That being said My longest ever shot was 450 yrds and I know that is the far reach of my abilities/ rifle combination.
I really think there are at least 2 sides to this question (BTW, thanks for asking it, it sure is getting people's blood pressure up and making them think!). On one hand, there are the guys that have the super-accurate rig that will do the honest .5 MOA or better at the range, and they begin to think they are the-be-all-end-all carrying the hammer of Thor. This can cause over-confidence, and taking risky or just plain stupid and unethical shots. On the other side of the coin are the guys that go out with a gun that they bought any old shells, played around until they got 1 round roughly where they were aiming, and call it good. The truth is, most any modern rifle of sufficient power will shoot (the gun I'm saying, just the gun) MORE than accurately enough for shots out to 200 yards in the right hands under the right conditions. Where do we find these right conditions? I don't know, haven't seen a lot of those myself. People need to practice with their rifle/load enough to know their limitations (gun/load AND shooter!), but I think what is needed more than that is self-control. "I've practiced out to 100m, but have no idea where this thing shoots farther than that, but look at that HUGE buck out there about 300m! I've got to try it anyway! I can't let this pass, I'll just hold above his back!" Practiced out to 100? Don't shoot past that. Plan on shooting farther? Practice farther. Rifle or shooter won't do it? Then DON'T DO IT!
A man who knows his limitations
.6 moa means if you hit dead center you will be 3 inches one side or the other, if you miss dead center by 3 inches 6 moa becomes 12 moa at 100 yards or 24 moa at 200 yards, Yes accuracy matters. If you shoot 6 moa don't shoot beyond 100yards. I won't use a rifle for hunting unles it shoots under 1 moa, too many things happen quick when shooting at live moving animals.
A 2-3 minute gun is all you will ever need for most hunting....Sure...Whatever....Why would you?
My business partner hunted with and killed several moose with a 303 with a funky (loose) scope mount. It shot 12inch groups at 200 yards.
His freezer is always full of moose.
I recently rebarreled a 375 Ultra because I could not handle the 1.5-2.0 MOA groups I was getting.
Its the 200 yards groups that look so wrong!
For me its a matter of confidence. If I'm confident I shoot well.
If I can't get near MOA I sell or rebarrel the gun.....That's just me.
Try calling your shot with a 6MOA rifle.
My business partner hunted with and killed several moose with a 303 with a funky (loose) scope mount. It shot 12inch groups at 200 yards.
His freezer is always full of moose.
I recently rebarreled a 375 Ultra because I could not handle the 1.5-2.0 MOA groups I was getting.
Its the 200 yards groups that look so wrong!
For me its a matter of confidence. If I'm confident I shoot well.
If I can't get near MOA I sell or rebarrel the gun.....That's just me.
Try calling your shot with a 6MOA rifle.
- Location
- Prince Albert, Sk
Any rifles for sale now???
A 2-3 minute gun is all you will ever need for most hunting....Sure...Whatever....Why would you?
My business partner hunted with and killed several moose with a 303 with a funky (loose) scope mount. It shot 12inch groups at 200 yards.
His freezer is always full of moose.
I recently rebarreled a 375 Ultra because I could not handle the 1.5-2.0 MOA groups I was getting.
Its the 200 yards groups that look so wrong!
For me its a matter of confidence. If I'm confident I shoot well.
If I can't get near MOA I sell or rebarrel the gun.....That's just me.
Try calling your shot with a 6MOA rifle.
It's called playing Devils Advocate for the few that haven't caught on. Indulge me.
Everybody and his dog sights their rifle 3 inches high at 100 on the theory that they can shoot to about 300 where the bullet will drop out the bottom being three inches low. JOC probably did more to promote the MPBR method than anyone, though I don't remember him calling it that.
Whats interesting is that the same shooter will agonize over 1/8th of an inch in group size (because it matters, everyone knows that
) while cheerfully giveing away 6 inches (because it doesn't matter, everyone knows that.) Our hero will valiantly maintain that the vast majority of game is shot under 200 yards, most of that under 100, while setting up his rig to shoot someplace else. Shrugging of a 3 inch error at 100 is somehow different than sighting for 100 and being able only be capable of hitting within 3 inches of POA?
The plot thickens when they assume that those hundred yard groups mean a darn thing at three or five hundred.
Then there's the guy that thinks that a 4" group vastly better than a 6" group while the wind is alternateing between 2 and 3 feet of drift. 'Course wind doesn't matter because all shots are close, but mechanical accuracy is all important because apparently all shots are long. A cartridge/bullet choice that could help with the much bigger drift issue isn't important because ranges are short doncha know. A light recoiling caliber that may place bullets closer together is an huge advantage because ranges are long.
Anyone care to clear this up for me?
Indulge me.Everybody and his dog sights their rifle 3 inches high at 100 on the theory that they can shoot to about 300 where the bullet will drop out the bottom being three inches low. JOC probably did more to promote the MPBR method than anyone, though I don't remember him calling it that.
Whats interesting is that the same shooter will agonize over 1/8th of an inch in group size (because it matters, everyone knows that
) while cheerfully giveing away 6 inches (because it doesn't matter, everyone knows that.) Our hero will valiantly maintain that the vast majority of game is shot under 200 yards, most of that under 100, while setting up his rig to shoot someplace else. Shrugging of a 3 inch error at 100 is somehow different than sighting for 100 and being able only be capable of hitting within 3 inches of POA? The plot thickens when they assume that those hundred yard groups mean a darn thing at three or five hundred.
Then there's the guy that thinks that a 4" group vastly better than a 6" group while the wind is alternateing between 2 and 3 feet of drift. 'Course wind doesn't matter because all shots are close, but mechanical accuracy is all important because apparently all shots are long. A cartridge/bullet choice that could help with the much bigger drift issue isn't important because ranges are short doncha know. A light recoiling caliber that may place bullets closer together is an huge advantage because ranges are long.
Anyone care to clear this up for me?
- Location
- Dah Soo,ON
Funny you say that.To 80% of the hunters around my city "sighting in" means going to a gravel pit with a box of corelokts, shooting off the hood of a truck. Spending 18 rounds getting on the paper (all the way back at 100 yards). Then shooting the last two rounds and just hitting the 8X10 paper with them.
Sadly, I used to be right there with them.
Or theres also the "Shoot at this 5 gallon pail at 100 paces. If you hit it, it's close enough."
It's called playing Devils Advocate for the few that haven't caught on.
Anyone care to clear this up for me?
You forgot about the rangefinder built in to everyone's head because god knows everyone can tell the difference between 200 and 250 yards when spotting game. Hell some people can even tell if the game is coming towards you or away from you running parallel!
It matters, you rarely hunt from a bench. If you shoot off-hand your wobble magnifies the inaccuracy of your rifle. The question is a bit weird as a $350 Stevens will put 3 in an inch so there's no excuse for hunting with a ####ty inaccurate gun.
Don't get me wrong, I build/rebarrel 1-3 rifles a year, buy about as many and probably spend more money on primers than most of our members spend on rifles. Not all of them of course. That would be silly.
I'm trying to understand where cartridge doesn't matter, but accuracy does. Since the pursuit of accuracy tends to suggest longer ranges, it would seem that arguments stateing that magnum or larger than average cartridges have no merit since ranges are short and shooters aren't capable of using them anyway, should apply equally as regards accuracy. Only in reverse.
I can show examples where the choice of the cartridge is a bigger force in placeing the bullet at point of aim than the mechanical ability of the rifle to put the holes close together. Ease of achieveing hits is the goal isn't it?
I get a kick how these threads turn into "Bash the Average Hunter" threads. I'd chip in but I don't personally know "80% of the hunters" in my city....
Accuracy instills confidence. A positive trait for a hunter, regardless of those that claim that it also instills risk-taking.
Also, accuracy helps to sell guns. Just go list your 6MOA rifle on the EE, complete with 6MOA group on a target, and see how quickly it moves.
I'd chip in but I don't personally know "80% of the hunters" in my city....Accuracy instills confidence. A positive trait for a hunter, regardless of those that claim that it also instills risk-taking.
Also, accuracy helps to sell guns. Just go list your 6MOA rifle on the EE, complete with 6MOA group on a target, and see how quickly it moves.
Very much so. A more forgiving trajectory helps when you are out in the real world. Plus the knowledge required to make adjustment, and even the knowledge that adjustment may be required.
A consistent scope and a correct zero helps too.
I have a 25-06 A1 that will put them in 4 inches at 1000 yds but it stay's in the safe because at my age I can barely see that distance, so it's all in the beholder of the gun and I ain't one of them any more. Accuracy does count.
You dont have to because it hits the target everytime, when you call a shot its the shooter not the gun that makes the mistake
LOL!
Well....Glad you have it all mastered brother.
If you ever shoot beside me you will hear me mutter quietly as I shoot.
What I am doing is calling my sight picture as the rifle recoils..Something like "2 inches left" from prone or "1/2 inch left" from the bench.
It helps me with body position, trigger control, follow threw, you name it.
