Does this make sense to anyone els? 30 moa build in dar 22 receiver?

stoop14

stoop14

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I just put together a 10/22 with a dar 22 receiver, i took my scope/rings off my savage that had a 20moa rail on it, so i figured i would have to go down 10 more moa to accommodate for extra 10moa but when i got out to the range to site it in, i had to actually go up 20 moa to zero it at 50 yards. To me this sounds like i got a zero moa railed receiver? It says 30 moa on it......
 
stoop14 said:
I just put together a 10/22 with a dar 22 receiver, i took my scope/rings off my savage that had a 20moa rail on it, so i figured i would have to go down 10 more moa to accommodate for extra 10moa but when i got out to the range to site it in, i had to actually go up 20 moa to zero it at 50 yards. To me this sounds like i got a zero moa railed receiver? It says 30 moa on it......
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Different gun, different rail, different barrel. I wouldn't worry.
 
Well I am worried because now I don't have the adjustment to reach 300 yards. On the savage I would have an extra 15 moa of adjustment after being zeroed at 300 yards. I can't even reach 300 now.
 
Well when u put a regular 10/22 receiver flat on a table where the trigger would go and put a level ontop its level, when I do the same with the dar22 is back grading.
 
stoop14 said:
Well when u put a regular 10/22 receiver flat on a table where the trigger would go and put a level ontop its level, when I do the same with the dar22 is back grading.
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So you mean the DAR receiver is lower in the front than the back? That would seem to be correct... Your bullet drops the further out it goes, so you need to set your scope lower in order to compensate. At least, that's my understanding of the angled rails.

Now the other question: Does the DAR receiver have a built-in rail, or did you use the flat-top and install your own rail? You also mentioned you can't get it zeroed to 300 yards... Can you zero it under 300 yards, or over 300 yards? Is your scope level in the mounts? I don't really know what could be causing this, but it's likely something was overlooked, especially when you said that you had to go up 20 MOA to zero the scope... Perhaps your original setup didn't actually have a 20 MOA rail, or maybe it was installed backwards.

Can you take everything apart (scope, rings, etc), and then reinstall it on the DAR receiver to see if anything changes? If not, could you remove the rail from the Savage, then reinstall it and test it out with the scope and rings again?
 
My understanding is it should be canted up so to make up for longer shots not downwards. With this receiver and my zee rings I should have 50 moa without even touching the scope. So I should really be at the other end of my scope adjustment, it should be bottomed out basically.
 
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of ballistics is such:

If you consider a scope that extends all the way to the end of the muzzle, then you can imagine that the scope is sitting a certain distance above the muzzle (say 1"). If you were to shoot a bullet at a target immediately beyond the muzzle, the point of impact (POI) would be exactly that distance (1") below the point of aim (POA).

Now, say you zero your scope at 50 yards, and your POA is exactly the same as POI (ignore recoil or any variance here). We've already established that the POA is 1" above the POI at the muzzle. Now, assume the bullet flies perfectly straight (like a laser). Because the POA is exactly the same as the POI at 50 yards, this means that the bullet trajectory must cross the line of sight at a point 50 yards beyond the muzzle.

Now, consider this: In order for the bullet to pass through the line of sight at any point, the line of sight and bullet trajectory must make a triangle between the scope, POI/POA, and muzzle. The only way to achieve that is if the muzzle is angled up slightly, and the scope is angled down slightly. If they are parallel, or angled apart, the lines will never cross. Thus, if you used a receiver with a 30 MOA cant towards the rear (that is, the rear was lower than the front), you're actually angling the scope further away from your barrel, and the bullet trajectory will never cross the line of sight.

I could go into why a cant can be beneficial on a receiver or rail, but I'd need to throw together some pictures in Paint or something to give illustrations... If you want, let me know and I'll go over why it can be beneficial to have the front of the scope lower relative to the rear.
 
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if you have a XX MOA rail, it raises the eye piece of the scope in relation to the bell end. Same way when you click your scopes adjustment knob "up" it lowers your actual reticle. So when you mounted your scope, and with all things being equal between the two rifles, it was 10 MOA more than your previous setup, and you shot at a 50 yard target that you were zeroed on before without making any adjustments, you should be hitting high on the target. You would have to then use the down on your scope to get on target. Therefore you now have gained that many "up" elevation clicks on your scope.
 
haha you should have seen me trying to figure that one out on my own the first time I tried to bore sight a bolt rifle by looking through the barrel to a spot and trying to adjust the scope to the same spot....

turn knobs up to move reticle down and left to more reticle right and vice versa...

smrt one I am!! :)
 
stoop14 said:
My understanding is it should be canted up so to make up for longer shots not downwards. With this receiver and my zee rings I should have 50 moa without even touching the scope. So I should really be at the other end of my scope adjustment, it should be bottomed out basically.
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Careful with your wording friend. The barrel should be artificially canted upwards with the front of the scope objective 'tipping' downwards. Meaning the 20 MOA bases should be wider at the rear of the action. This way the bore axis is already higher from the get-go. Scope adjustments have built in help already, hence more MOA Up elevation is made available. Think of it as a triangulation problem. If you mounted the bases with the thicker end forward, you are creating a divergent with the line of sight and bore axis in an ever increasing angle. This is not what you want as you are starting with an MOA deficeit before you even touch the elevation turret.
 
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is there any chance that the rail on the savage was installed with the thicker part of the rail towards the muzzle end? Not sure if that is even possible or not??

Also, at the risk of asking the obvious, but you never know, I assume that you are shooting the same brand ammo? Didn't go from high velocity to standard or anything like that?
 
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stoop14 said:
My understanding is it should be canted up so to make up for longer shots not downwards. With this receiver and my zee rings I should have 50 moa without even touching the scope. So I should really be at the other end of my scope adjustment, it should be bottomed out basically.
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Sorry you have it backwards the taller end is on the objective side not the bell end !
 
Well I am worried because now I don't have the adjustment to reach 300 yards. On the savage I would have an extra 15 moa of adjustment after being zeroed at 300 yards. I can't even reach 300 now.

Stoop,

Call me old fashtioned, but why would you want to shoot a .22Lr out to 300yards? It is a great garden gun for pests, to about 80/100 yards, target shooting at 50.

300 yards? You have the wrong gun. Get a centre fire.

rsf
 
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