Dominion , Imperial, and C.I.L.

[catnthehatt]

Instead of getting off topic in the recent 340/830 thread, I decided to answer 4831's question about Dominion in a new one.
Dominion Cartridge was actually started as a seperate company in Brownsburg in the late 1800's, but C.I.L. used it as one of their brands in many of their cartridge lines.
They at one time owned Dupont as well, but sold it in the mid 50's which was later IMR, which is now owned by Hodgdon as most know.

They also were the original North American makers of a polymer ( nylon type)
tipped bullet, of which the patent was settled in court!

C.I.L. also had a plant in the States, in New York IIRC.

Among some of the great canadian shooters who used C.I.L. match ammo were Gil Boa, Gerry Ouellette, George Marsh, Herman Webber, Bob Todd , Arnold park, Rudy Shultz, and Edson Warner, to mane a few .
Towards the end I believe that most of these Master class shooters used Eley tennex or match in smallbore , but I know for a fact that they all at one time shot C.I.L. match .
All were national team memebrs in the 50's , 60's, and 70's, some shot fullbore as well as smallbore, and all made their mark on the World class scene, in the Olympics , at the World's , and at Bisley.
Of them all, I believe Mr. Warner is still with us ( his son posts here occasionally), but I have lost track of the rest, or know that they have gone to quieter ranges......
Cat

 

[CanAm]

Dupont built the plant to produce IMR (Improved Miltary Rifle). It is now Expro-Tec under General Dynamics

 

[catnthehatt]

Dupont built the plant to produce IMR (Improved Miltary Rifle). It is now Expro-Tec under General Dynamics

I'm not sure when Dupont produced IMR powders, but I believe it was after C.I.L. sold Dupont .
They may have been using their Dupont factory in the States to manufacture paint or explosives, instead of gunpowder, I'm not sure however.

Do you know by chance the relationship of General Dynamics to Hodgdon?

When one gets involved in company alliances, it often turns out looking like a soap opera - just look at the Brescia gunsmiths - half of them are blood relatives, others related by marriage, and the rest feuding with them!!
Cat

 

[CanAm]

They did not own Dupont. They owned the old Dupont plant, Now expro. Expro-Tech sells powder to Hodgdon, who now owns the "IMR" trademark.

Checking deeper, Dupont owned a large chunk of CIL:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Industries_Limited
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0009787
http://www2.dupont.com/Our_Company/en_CA/glance/Our_History_In_Canada.html

 

[catnthehatt]

I have to disagree with you, but aI think they were co-owned by ICI in the 40's.
I believ they relenquished them in 1950 or '55.
I have a book somewhwere of the histroy and am very certain of this....
Cat

 

[blargon]

In 1919, with the end of the war, the company CXL entered entirely new industries when it acquired three Canadian subsidiaries of E. I. du Pont de Nemours and Company. Following further expansion and acquisitions, the company adopted the name Canadian Industries Limited (C.I.L.) to better reflect the nature of its activities.

Throughout the booming 1920s and the depression of the 1930s, C.I.L. continued to grow. One of its largest new plants was a cellophane cellulose film plant in Shawinigan Falls, Québec, built in 1932. In 1942, the second nylon plant in the world was built in Kingston, Ontario. (Its still there, I just got off work.)

When World War II interfered with peaceful growth in Canada, the company once again placed its organization and facilities at the disposal of the government's war effort. Except for nylon, most of the company's direct war effort was concentrated in a special subsidiary, Defence Industries Limited, which built, managed and operated government-owned war plants. At one time, this subsidiary had about six times as many employees as did C.I.L.

In the period after WW II, the company's two major shareholders - E. I. du Pont de Nemours and Company and Imperial Chemical Industries (ICI) - became engaged in defending the anti-trust suit taken against them in the United States. Judgment was rendered against the partners in 1952.

For over 50 years, E. I. du Pont de Nemours and Company and ICI had held a joint interest in C.I.L. and its forerunners. Access to the new developments and technical information of these two shareholders had been a substantial factor in the company's success and in the growth of the chemical industry in Canada.

The judgment in the U.S. court ordered DuPont and ICI, among other things, to separate their interests in the Canadian company. The arrangement divided C.I.L. into two parts, one of which would be a subsidiary of DuPont and the other of ICI. The plan gave minority shareholders an interest in each of the two new companies, thus protecting their shares in future benefits to be derived from the flow of research and technical information from both DuPont and ICI.

On July 1, 1954, the division of the assets and business of C.I.L. became effective. The DuPont subsidiary became Du Pont of Canada Limited and the ICI subsidiary kept the name Canadian Industries Limited.

 

[CanAm]

I have to disagree with you, they did own them in the 40's.
I believ they relenquished them in 1950 or '55.
I have a book somewhwere of the histroy and am very certain of this....
Cat

CIL was essentially Dupont Canada, not Dupont. CIL did not own them. CIL was split from Dupont and ICI in an antitrust in 1954, creating Dupont Canada. Still owned by ICI

 

[catnthehatt]

CIL was essentially Dupont Canada, not Dupont. CIL did not own them. CIL was split from Dupont and ICI in an antitrust in 1954, creating Dupont Canada. Still owned by ICI

Oh crap, I stand corrected!
Two different companies!
Like I said, too many soap operas for me to keep track of!
Good thing I decided to start another thread on this instead of invading the one where some guy just wanted to know about his 30/30, eh?!!
Cat

 

[sgt.rock]

One question, I have a CIL .22 bolt action rifle, and it actually shoots like the dickens!!! I was just wondering if some of you guys could shed some light on the subject of CIL badged guns and their associations with firearms.
I understand that CIL just imported guns from various places such as Brazil and then put their name on them, But does anyone know or have a list of the different models and calibers that they sold under the name CIL, and what years did they do this I.E. 19xx to 19xx. I never could find much info on their firearms sector, even with Google, and other sources.

 

[12magnum]

Cil mod.125 manufactured by Anschutz model184, Cil model212 by savage mod.7J,Cil mod.221 by savage mod.7J,CIL mod.227 by savage mod.871, CIL mod.233 by savage mod.85N, CIL mod.266 by savage mod.187, CIL mod. 470 by Anschutz mod.520/61, Cil mod. 607 by savage mod.67, CIL mod.607TD by savage mod. 30 FLD GR,CIL mod.621 by savage mod.30, CIL mod. 621 TD by savage mod.30D, CIL mod.710 by savage mod.311,CIL mod.725 by savage mod.FOX BDE,CIL mod. 402 by Boito mod.CBC,CIL mod.830 by savage mod.340,CIL mod.871 by savage mod.170,CIL mod 950 C,D by savage mod 110 C,D, CIL mod.MKVII by H&R mod.865.If you can make sense out of that. There are more but that's all the one I have cross references to.

 

[Trevor2Toes]

I'd like to see a complete list too. I think the following were made by Anschutz.
CIL 111
CIL 121
CIL 125
CIL 167
CIL 180
CIL 190
CIL 300
CIL 310
CIL 470

I know a CIL 972C was made by Parker Hale

 

[catnthehatt]

I'd like to see a complete list too. I think the following were made by Anschutz.
CIL 111
CIL 121
CIL 125
CIL 167
CIL 180
CIL 190
CIL 300
CIL 310
CIL 470

I know a CIL 972C was made by Parker Hale

Yup, and the 950T was a Savage J action, a true medium action single shot
in 308. The stock was all C.I.L. as was the adapter plate for the PH sight.
( I have the original bluepringt and adapter)

The 900 is an Anschutz 54 action with Sile stock in .222 and 22 mag.
Most of the stocks you see on the Anschutz made rifles for C.I.L. are Siles.
There were a few executives that wanted to use Jud's gunstocks ( Waterford Ont.) but for some reason it was thought that they would not sell.
Not that Sile stocks are not beautiful, but anyone who has ever seen a Judd stock would know that this would not have been the case!
The 910 was also a C.I.L. rfile...
Cat

Cat

 

[sgt.rock]

Yeah, mine isn't on the list so far. Its a model 171 in .22 LR. I just refinished the wood, and its a rosewood stock. Looks beautiful. Grain is pretty nice for a .22 I just love it. It really hits tight groups.

 

[Murf]

CILO also sold the Franchi semi auto shotgun. The one I used to have had Franchi markings on the barrel and reciever but a real tacky looking CIL pistol grip cap.

 

[catnthehatt]

CILO also sold the Franchi semi auto shotgun. The one I used to have had Franchi markings on the barrel and reciever but a real tacky looking CIL pistol grip cap.

I thought I mentioned Franchi!
They were great shotguns. for sure, they had some O/U's as well, field grade guns (Falconets) and super trap guns - I can't remember if they were 505's or 1000's however....
Cat

 

[Eagleye]

Yeah, mine isn't on the list so far. Its a model 171 in .22 LR. I just refinished the wood, and its a rosewood stock. Looks beautiful. Grain is pretty nice for a .22 I just love it. It really hits tight groups.

These were a clone of a 5xx Remington 22, built in Brazil by CBC for CIL. Good shooters but usually the triggers leave a bit to be desired. Eagleye.

 

[Forcedair]

Here's a couple of pages from CIL's 1973 catalogue.

 

[Gibbs505]

Great history there!

 

[sgt.rock]

WOW, glad to see that catalogue. Answered alot of questions. Thanks so much for the post. Funny thing is that I dont believe my model 171 is worth much more now than it was when new . (smile)

 

[maynard]

Among some of the great canadian shooters who used C.I.L. match ammo were Gil Boa, Gerry Ouellette, George Marsh, Herman Webber, Bob Todd , Arnold park, Rudy Shultz, and Edson Warner, to mane a few .
Towards the end I believe that most of these Master class shooters used Eley tennex or match in smallbore , but I know for a fact that they all at one time shot C.I.L. match .
All were national team memebrs in the 50's , 60's, and 70's, some shot fullbore as well as smallbore, and all made their mark on the World class scene, in the Olympics , at the World's , and at Bisley.
Of them all, I believe Mr. Warner is still with us ( his son posts here occasionally), but I have lost track of the rest, or know that they have gone to quieter ranges......
Cat

Cat,
That old picture you posted a while back of the Canadian small-bore team at Camp Perry has some shooters in it that are still alive and shooting. Stan Frost is still very active. Art Grundy will be shooting his 57th straight DCRA match this summer (58 total). Both of these guys are still shooting irons with a sling.