Double action vs. single action

Carrying cocked and locked may worry some people but not really an issue here since we can't CCW anyways!

Was looking at a Norc hicap 1911 for my ATC pistol and the fact that I'd have carry cocked and locked does seem a touch disconcerting. Heavy da trigger just seems safer to me.
 
If you are carrying the pistol down your pants, double action makes sense. If you are firing at a range, double action semi autos serve no purpose. Noone at the range is likely to have a double action rifle.
Single action only is easier to fire, no need to make things difficult.
 
Just to throw a wrench into the mix, there's also the Lionheart LH9 with what the Koreans call "Double Action Plus".
 
Carrying cocked and locked may worry some people but not really an issue here since we can't CCW anyways!

Was looking at a Norc hicap 1911 for my ATC pistol and the fact that I'd have carry cocked and locked does seem a touch disconcerting. Heavy da trigger just seems safer to me.

If you are carrying the pistol down your pants, double action makes sense. If you are firing at a range, double action semi autos serve no purpose. Noone at the range is likely to have a double action rifle.
Single action only is easier to fire, no need to make things difficult.

SA isn't easier to shoot, it simply covers up a lot of poor form, but that will only carry a person so far and then their performance will level off. The issues I have with SA guns are these: Exposed hammers(generally) and a manual safety. Extra parts and extra steps to shooting. I like it simple and reliable.

TW25B
 
How is cocked and locked dangerous? Don't really see it that way. I notice a few glock issues with jacket strings catching the trigger.
I think a true good shooter can or should be able to shoot anything. If you suck at DA/SA triggers get practicing with one. I am lol. This thing about shooting a glock will set you up to be able to shoot anything is strange. It does not apply to any other activity that I know of.
If you can drive a full size ford van around a racetrack, you then will know how to drive a 458 Italia around the same one lol.

Learn to shoot everything.
I need to buy a striker fired gun one day myself.
 
Cocked and locked with an ergonomic system like the 1911 becomes a reflex action very quickly. Sweep down before firing, sweep up before after shooting. Very quick.
 
SA isn't easier to shoot, it simply covers up a lot of poor form, but that will only carry a person so far and then their performance will level off. The issues I have with SA guns are these: Exposed hammers(generally) and a manual safety. Extra parts and extra steps to shooting. I like it simple and reliable.

TW25B

If you shoot a SA auto well, your form is perfect for that platform. You can get away with limp wristing a Glock but not a 1911, so poor form is a matter of conjecture pertaining to the platform under discussion. This also suggests that if you shoot a 1911, you can't easily transition to a striker fired gun; this isn't something I've found to be true.

I don't see how an exposed hammer is a problem. An exposed hammer on a 1911, that's carried cocked and locked, cannot catch on clothing if CCW is your concern. Those preferring the appearance striker fired guns, might object to the appearance of the "dated" exposed hammer design, so the issue is properly one of perspective rather than function.

If you can't manage the manual safety on a 1911, it makes one wonder, but you can safely remove or ignore the thumb safely, provided the grip safety is not also deactivated.

To my way of thinking, trigger action is the most critical element pertaining to pistol marksmanship. A SA trigger breaks with the same amount of travel and weight for each shot, from the first to the last round fired. A DA trigger requires a long pull for the initial shot, and short pull for each subsequent shot unless the hammer is dropped to the safe position; then it takes a long pull to once again initially fire the pistol. A DA only trigger doesn't require a safety, but it does require a long trigger pull to fire the gun every time, and IMHO, is the most difficult trigger type to manage. Striker fired triggers can be long pulls or short, at any point during the firing sequence, it simply depends how far the shooter allows the trigger to reset after a shot. This to me is less intuitive, than either a DA or the simple, works the same way each time, SA trigger. The striker fired trigger is an example of an extremely complex trigger design, where a SA trigger is the simplest in both design and function, yet both designs have proven reliable under adverse conditions.
 
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Seems like I've opened a can of worms. So many options. I'm still leaning towards the 1911 platform for simplicity and ease of use. My wife and kids will be learning to shoot any pistol I buy as well.
Would a single action also have fewer internal parts to possibly be failure points?
 
Seems like I've opened a can of worms. So many options. I'm still leaning towards the 1911 platform for simplicity and ease of use. My wife and kids will be learning to shoot any pistol I buy as well.
Would a single action also have fewer internal parts to possibly be failure points?
What I'm gonna say now is heresay so don't hold me to it.
I have spoken to friends who are in LE and have taken multiple gun fighting courses in the States where many rounds are shot through a weekend. They tell me that 1911s go down like crazy at these courses, one guy even said the Jericho pistols fail also.
Take it for what its worth. I know I'm sticking with my Glock!:p
 
What I'm gonna say now is heresay so don't hold me to it.
I have spoken to friends who are in LE and have taken multiple gun fighting courses in the States where many rounds are shot through a weekend. They tell me that 1911s go down like crazy at these courses, one guy even said the Jericho pistols fail also.
Take it for what its worth. I know I'm sticking with my Glock!:p

That is definitely food for thought. I will take that into consideration. Thanks.
 
If you shoot a SA auto well, your form is perfect for that platform. You can get away with limp wristing a Glock but not a 1911, so poor form is a matter of conjecture pertaining to the platform under discussion. This also suggests that if you shoot a 1911, you can't easily transition to a striker fired gun; this isn't something I've found to be true.

My observations are exactly the opposite. The heavy weight of a 1911 and the short and light SA trigger all add do a nice job of covering up poor form. The light weight and heavier trigger of a striker fired pistol do not cover up bad form, they make you honest.

I don't see how an exposed hammer is a problem. An exposed hammer on a 1911, that's carried cocked and locked, cannot catch on clothing if CCW is your concern. Those preferring the appearance striker fired guns, might object to the appearance of the "dated" exposed hammer design, so the issue is properly one of perspective rather than function.

Exposed hammers are not necessary, it's a dated pointless design that involves additional parts. Clothing is one concern, dirt and debris is another. If there is a space between the hammer and firing pin then there is the potential for foreign matter to interfere with that relationship.

If you can't manage the manual safety on a 1911, it makes one wonder, but you can safely remove or ignore the thumb safely, provided the grip safety is not also deactivated.

It is not about activating the safety, it's about it being pointless as the safety is removed when the gun is drawn. When the gun is holstered the trigger is covered and the safety is on. There is no benefit to a manual safety when you immediately disengage it when drawing. The other issue is that manual safeties get forgotten when shooting under stress and they aren't always ambidextrous without the addition of parts.

To my way of thinking, trigger action is the most critical element pertaining to pistol marksmanship. A SA trigger breaks with the same amount of travel and weight for each shot, from the first to the last round fired. A DA trigger requires a long pull for the initial shot, and short pull for each subsequent shot unless the hammer is dropped to the safe position; then it takes a long pull to once again initially fire the pistol. A DA only trigger doesn't require a safety, but it does require a long trigger pull to fire the gun every time, and IMHO, is the most difficult trigger type to manage. Striker fired triggers can be long pulls or short, at any point during the firing sequence, it simply depends how far the shooter allows the trigger to reset after a shot. This to me is less intuitive, than either a DA or the simple, works the same way each time, SA trigger. The striker fired trigger is an example of an extremely complex trigger design, where a SA trigger is the simplest in both design and function, yet both designs have proven reliable under adverse conditions.

The safe double action trigger of a Glock is in fact a double action only design, but it doesn't suffer from the classic long and heavy pull of a hammer fired DAO gun. The only difference between the safe double action and an SA trigger is that there is some slack in the SDA trigger, much like a two stage trigger on a rifle. You don't have to take up the slack before breaking the shot, you can press right through from start to finish if you wish or need to. If you take up the slack and work the reset after each shot(which you should be doing regardless of action type) the trigger becomes very crisp and very short..... Kind of like a single action gun.

Most SA guns are old outdated designs. They have limited capacities, are heavy, large, expensive, contain more parts and pieces and are less reliable. DA/SA guns are even worse as they have two very distinct trigger
pulls and often very soft or absent resets.

In the bold sir :)

TW25B
 
OMG! First time?? With a .45? Wow! The kid's a natural!

With subsequent groups he had a bit of trouble keeping enough mass behind the gun so it would run reliably, his shooting arm was bent in the Weaver style, but the pistol ran flawlessly once he locked his elbow. While I prefer Weaver, isosceles would prove easier for the novice with respect to positive cycling of the pistol. Recoil was of course no problem with Federal factory 230 gr ball.
 
In the bold sir :)

TW25B

The striker fired pistol makes you concentrate more on the reset of the trigger than on the press which fires the shot. If you've trained yourself to add 3 or 4 pounds of pressure to the trigger without moving the rest of your hand, you've mastered most of the problems related to the mechanics of good shooting, all that's left is position, sight picture and breathing. With a SA trigger, on reset all you have to pay attention to is that you don't loose contact with the trigger as it resets, and this takes little concentration.

Some folks are so heavily invested in technology that they become upset that some designs are timeless and cannot be improved upon. The striker fired pistol is a different way of doing things, not a better way. The SA's exposed hammer is a case in point. After having been the issue pistol for the WW-I, WW-II, the Korean and Vietnamese wars, the frequent preference of special forces personnel in modern conflicts, and for swat team personnel who have a choice, the any suggestion that the pistol can be made unfunctional from dirt entering the recess for the hammer is pretty much imaginary, although anyone who stakes his life on a pistol, even a striker fired pistol, should protect it to the extent possible.

A 1911 doesn't need the thumb safety, so if its removed, the striker fired gun has no advantage.

The greater your magazine capacity, the longer you're in the fight, I buy into that. Magazine capacity is one point from which the 1911 suffers, even when chambered for 9mm or .38 Super, the Browning P-35 is better, but still doesn't match the Glock's 17 round capacity. Under our current laws however, the Glock and the 1911 are both restricted to 10 rounds, so there is no advantage to the Glock. Scrap the magazine restrictions, and I'll go shopping.

I'll give the striker fired guns kudos in one area, if you want an affordable, reliable out of the box fighting pistol, the striker fired guns have it all over the 1911s, which are a gunsmith's cottage industry.
 
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Buy and shoot what you like. Learn and hone fundamentals to optimize your chosen platform. Then have fun!!!

I mainly shoot striker fired polymer guns but mix up 1911, DA sigs, and DAO (boberg) to force myself to refocus on fundamentals when I use the different system. Makes one a better shooter overall and after a while you'll find you shoot all the guns about the same.
 
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