Double barrel actions

Short Knife Johnson

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St. Paul AB
I'm not a purveyor of shotguns by any means. In fact, the only reason I'm looking at buying one is for the purposes of Cowboy Action Shooting. I found a cute little double in 12 gauge that is already made into coach gun. The action dosn't quite lock up s new. It has a bit of wiggle, and I as wondering how much play can these types of actions have before they are no good, or what can be done about the slack developed? The guy selling the piece claims to have shot it, and it seems OK to him. The make I cannot recall, but she's an old girl that looks like there is some life left in her. Bores are mint, and the triggers function fine. Exposed hammers that make me weak in the knees. Does anyone have a rule of thumb for this. I have yet to have a gun come apart on me during the firing process, and don't wish to start, so any help would be great.
 
My fathers double was like that went to a gunsmith and was told it could be fixed for $500. Decided to hang it up. Was talking to another gunsmith in Bewdley and he fixed it for a $150. Works great and my son now has it and still shoots and opens as if it was brand new (althought it is roughly 50years old).
 
Any "wiggle" is too much for me!
+1

Was talking to another gunsmith in Bewdley and he fixed it for a $150.

considering the average cost of an old used SxS is ~$200-300, $150 is proportionately a lot of money to fix it. its easier to just buy one that doesnt wiggle in the first place. if its a family heirloom like yours, then its a different story and cost is not an issue.

wiggle is the first thing that the older guys who live and breathe doubles tell you to check for, and they know their sh*t, so thats good enough for me.
 
'old used SxS'.

any gun store you walk into has a bunch of old 2 3/4" SxSs for that price range.
hes talking about an old wiggly SxS that has been bubbad into a coach gun... just how much do you think its going to be? $1000? :rolleyes:
 
When a gun is in the condition described by the OP, it is known as being "off face". When a break action gun is slightly loose, it's generally still safe to fire. However, the question becomes, at what point does it become unsafe? And, how does someone evaluate it's condition and describe how to evaluate such situations to others? This determination is VERY subjective at best and it is not wise to engage in such speculation.

Much more certain is the fact that, once the lockup has developed play, if you continue to shoot the gun, the condition will worsen. As has been suggested, if the gun is a family heirloom, have it fixed before someone (or the gun) gets hurt. If you don't already own the gun, though, why would you want to purchase it knowing that the needed repairs could cost as much or more than the gun is worth? (or that you might damage the gun or injure yourself or others if you don't effect repairs?)

As a HUGE hammergun fan, I can tell you that most of the older SXS hammerguns were chambered in 2 1/2". Many shooters don't realise this because shotgun chambers are cut long enough to allow the crimp to open fully, without opening into the forcing cone. This means that a 2 3/4" shell will appear to chamber without a problem.

The trouble with this is that 2 3/4" shells, even though they appear to fit perfectly, do not open fully without encroaching on the forcing cones in 2 1/2" chambers. The added constriction of the crimp in the cone causes barrel pressures to increase considerably. Add to that the fact that many if not most of these old guns were proofed only for black powder and you can see why the gun came loose in the first place and why it is the very disaster you fear, just waiting to happen.

If you're new to old SXS's, you need to learn how to measure chamber length (not difficult at all). You need to learn to take pictures of proof marks and how to decode them, so you can avoid modern "smokeless" powder shells in guns that weren't made to handle those kinds of pressures (shells loaded with nitro "smokeless" powders generate close to double the pressures black powder guns were built to handle).

I don't want to discourage anyone from cultivating an interest in old doubleguns - they can be some of the finest guns ever built and they are perfectly safe when free from damage and fed only ammunition for which they were intended.
 
If you're new to old SXS's, you need to learn how to measure chamber length (not difficult at all).

im assuming this is without a chamber length gauge? would you mind posting a thread on how to do this properly?

in fact if some of you SxS enthusiasts wouldnt mind putting an info thread together sometime about what to look for - and what to avoid -when buying a SxS, im sure it would be much appreciated by the community.
 
im assuming this is without a chamber length gauge? would you mind posting a thread on how to do this properly?

in fact if some of you SxS enthusiasts wouldnt mind putting an info thread together sometime about what to look for - and what to avoid -when buying a SxS, im sure it would be much appreciated by the community.

seconded
 
Thanks for the input guys. I've known the guy selling the gun for a number of years, and know that he is not just out to dump garbage on the unsuspecting. He's also not an expert. Tells me he's test fired it with the cheap Wal-Mart shells and it worked just fine. I had my suspicions it has the 2 1/2 chamber. On the rib it is marked "Damascus Finish" and I think that must have been an old marketing ploy to ease the transition to smokeless powder guns, and the makers name escapes me. He was asking $300, but there is no way I'd give him that. My plan was to use the stockpile of Magtech brass hulls with Black Powder in it.

I'm aware that inanimate objects that develop maladies such as action looseness do not heal themselves without outside intervention. :D

BTW straightshooter. The quotes you have in your signature are spot on.
 
im assuming this is without a chamber length gauge? would you mind posting a thread on how to do this properly?

in fact if some of you SxS enthusiasts wouldnt mind putting an info thread together sometime about what to look for - and what to avoid -when buying a SxS, im sure it would be much appreciated by the community.

Yes, a chamber guage would be the most accurate, but I've found I can judge the length of the chamber by running a wooden dowel down the side of the chamber until I feel the beginning of the forcing cone. I usually run the dowel back and forth several times to make sure the end is as close to the start of the forcing cone* as possible. Then, I mark the point on the dowel even with the face of the breech (edge of the barrel). Next, I simply measure the length of dowel as marked. Remember to subtract the 1/4" that is there to allow room for the crimp. I recommend 3 separate measurements done this way, in order to eliminate the odd bad reading.

So, if you measure 2 3/4" to the start of the forcing cone, the chamber(s) are 2 1/2 inch; 3" measurement means 2 3/4" chambers, and so on.

* For those who don't know, the forcing cone is like a funnel section that reduces the barrel diameter from the diameter of the shell down to the diameter of the barrel. It's not a sharp angle where the forcing cone starts, but it is easily perceptible. Holding the dowel against the right side of the chamber at the opening while feeling for the start of the chamber on the left side of the barrel (or vice versa) makes the angle more acute and slightly easier to find. Be VERY careful not to let the dowel slide in or out before marking, or you'll cause a false reading.

On the rib it is marked "Damascus Finish" and I think that must have been an old marketing ploy to ease the transition to smokeless powder guns

That's entirely possible, although it more likely means that the gun was built with damascus barrels. Damascus barrels are made through a process that involves twisting iron and steel strands together and then wrapping them around a mandrel and fusing the strips together by pounding them together (oversimplification). Many people these days assume that damascus barrels are poorly made and incapable of withstanding the pressures exerted by nitro powders. This is simply not the case. Damascus barrels are still made to this very day. But, they are prohibitively expensive for most people because their construction is heavily dependent on manual labour.

It is true, however, that most damascus barrels you or I will ever see were made decades, if not more than a century ago, and may now be unsafe due to corrosion, as would fluid steel barrels be if they were in the same era.


NOTE: I'm not ignoring the suggestion that tips on evaluating and buying vintage guns would be appreciated, but it's not going to happen during the hunting season. Sharptail (the CGNer) has forgotten more than I'll ever know about firearms, so perhaps I can tempt him to contribute to such an effort during the cold winter months.
 
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