Double rifles
- Thread starter DGY
- Start date
That working grade 8x57jrs is a nice piece.
Don’t see a lot of those on the market unfortunately. Sure there’s still a grand worth of craftsmanship in there.
Not going to fulfill any safari dreams but modern o/u double rifles from German makers have some very cool tech
Don’t see a lot of those on the market unfortunately. Sure there’s still a grand worth of craftsmanship in there.
Not going to fulfill any safari dreams but modern o/u double rifles from German makers have some very cool tech
The best value in new double rifles are over/unders. Two reasons…. Most are based on popular currently mass produced over/under shotgun actions, greatly reducing development and manufacturing costs and over/unders are much simpler to regulate both barrels to impact the same point, proper regulation is a painstaking and expensive process. Quality over/under rifles are made by many European makers of quality over/unders, from Beretta and Browning to Zoli. At the lower end of the price range are used guns from Brno, Baikal, etc which can frequently be found under $2000. More finely finished and sophisticated guns obviously cost more, how high is your budget?
Think of it as an investment. You can use it for years , and sell it for what you paid or more if you buy a quality one.
Just something special about a double rifle. Took me a long time to take the plunge into purchasing one. Wish I had done it sooner.
Just something special about a double rifle. Took me a long time to take the plunge into purchasing one. Wish I had done it sooner.
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Thats a very nice set up you have there Rod !
Very nice indeed, the two barrel set make a very versatile combo for Vancouver Island and other parts of BC.
RWS is easy to find and iirc S&B is another option for quality ammo in the 8X57IRS .
That set up would make for a Once in a lifetime hunt (LEH Elk) in the Nimpkish Valley and a Black Bear hunt tossed in for good measure.
How does she shoot and what yrdage is she regulated for ??
Oops, not wanting to side track the op's search, but am jealous well, not really ...just a little.
Good Score and a Great Business Partner.
Rob
- Location
- Lloydminster, Alberta
Sold. This link is now dead.
I’m a double gun guy. If you’re cost conscious, look for a Baikal. It’s a SxS double, but the stock geometry will beat you mercilessly with any cartridge with a bit of ooomph…. I’m thinking .45-70.
Sabatti is an NFG POS. They royally screwed up the regulation, then filed the muzzle crown to get them to sort of shoot straight. Mickey Mouse in the extreme.
O/U are probably the most cost effective, but with O/U, the gun needs to be broken very wide open to reload, and an O/ lacks the panache of a classic double.
I’d suggest you look at Merkel as an entry point rifle if the low cost Baikal doesn’t turn your crank.
Chapsuis, Verney Carron, Heym, and upward from there is where you will eventually end up if your wallet will withstand the sticker shock. I have a Merkel in 9.3x 74R that is regulated very well and it cost me about $6.5k a few years ago. It took me a VERY long time to work up a load that would regulate, but with doubles, that is part of the journey. I got VERY lucky with that purchase, the rifle having cocking indicators, side clips, and some very nice hand engraving. I can’t imagine how much it would cost today….. it’s 10 years old now.
Do yourself a favor and avoid the Blaser S2 doubles. They are a very expensive “modern” take on a double rifle and holds absolutely ZERO in common with the Classic soldered barrel doubles that command serious bucks. Join the Nitro Express forums out of Australia for a double rifle education before you lay your money down. Also buy a copy of Graeme Wright’s “Shooting the British Double Rifle”to get a better understanding of the idiosyncrasies of a double rifle before you put your hard earned money down.
Sabatti is an NFG POS. They royally screwed up the regulation, then filed the muzzle crown to get them to sort of shoot straight. Mickey Mouse in the extreme.
O/U are probably the most cost effective, but with O/U, the gun needs to be broken very wide open to reload, and an O/ lacks the panache of a classic double.
I’d suggest you look at Merkel as an entry point rifle if the low cost Baikal doesn’t turn your crank.
Chapsuis, Verney Carron, Heym, and upward from there is where you will eventually end up if your wallet will withstand the sticker shock. I have a Merkel in 9.3x 74R that is regulated very well and it cost me about $6.5k a few years ago. It took me a VERY long time to work up a load that would regulate, but with doubles, that is part of the journey. I got VERY lucky with that purchase, the rifle having cocking indicators, side clips, and some very nice hand engraving. I can’t imagine how much it would cost today….. it’s 10 years old now.
Do yourself a favor and avoid the Blaser S2 doubles. They are a very expensive “modern” take on a double rifle and holds absolutely ZERO in common with the Classic soldered barrel doubles that command serious bucks. Join the Nitro Express forums out of Australia for a double rifle education before you lay your money down. Also buy a copy of Graeme Wright’s “Shooting the British Double Rifle”to get a better understanding of the idiosyncrasies of a double rifle before you put your hard earned money down.
- Location
- Saskatchewan
I have a couple double rifles, and like them a lot. You have been given some good advice here, but be cautious about some of what you receive because double rifles are the subjects of passionate debate. There are two basic "schools" of thought - those who think the British are the beginning and end of the double rifle culture and history, and the European "others" who are so gauche that they actually promote the use of modern materials and methods, and over/under configurations, and perhaps go so far that they hunt with a scope attached their double rifle.
I like both. This is what I did:
I can't abide the asking price for a "proper" British double but admire their artistry, style, and history. But $20,000 and up is too much for me. So I have a solid and serviceable German Merkel 140AE that shoots a grand old British cartridge, .450-400 3" Nitro Express. ( .400 Jefferey) My eyes don't agree with iron sights any more so I have it fitted with excellent Recknagel QD scope mounts and a nice 1-4x Kaps scope. It shoots accurately, handles well, and efficiently killed the Cape Buffalo and bull Elk that I have hunted with it. I have under $10,000 invested.
I also admire the European tradition of hunting driven game with a quick handling medium bore double rifle. Having hunted in Germany a few times broadened my horizons a bit. It's not only the Brits who know how to make good doubles, no matter what so many Americans or Aussies say. The Germans, Austrians, Italians, etc. are not so constrained. So they make some very lively, accurate, and relatively affordable O/U double rifles specifically for hunting Battue, Druckjagd, or whatever you call European game driven to the gun.
Mine is a Beretta Silver Sable O/U in 9.3x74R. Based on their proven technology and built on a 20 ga. frame, it is much more lively and responsive than my SxS. It shoots quickly and accurately with the fibre optic open sights at close range, and very accurately with the S&B 1.5-8x42 illuminated scope at any reasonable range and in any light. The fallacy of an O/U being too slow to load is just that. A story made up by anglophile sxs double lovers. I've used mine for a couple of local bears so far. That rifle is also under $10,000 all in. Beretta doesn't make the silver sable any more, but several European makers do make something similar.
My advice is to stay away from single triggers, double triggers are more reliable, more traditional, and always work. They do take a little getting used to. If you like the super modern approach taken by Blaser and a few others, there is nothing wrong with that. Function trumps style, as long as you like the style. Be aware that double rifles in side x side configuration are challenging to fit with a scope. A scope can be used, but the barrels may not regulate well if the rifle was not fitted with a scope at the factory. One of the great virtues of modern European medium bore doubles is user barrel regulation, via a screw/wedge arrangement near the muzzle. That option is only available on guns of moderate bore size, usually 9.3 and below. It allows use of scope or no, or different ammunition, with accurate convergence of both barrels at point of aim. If you can't buy the exact ammunition that a double with fixed barrels was regulated with, be prepared for a hefty bill to re-regulate or a long process of load development. And rimmed cartridges are the way to go. A good double can be made for a rimless cartridge, but it's a mismatch of technology in my opinion. Of course I'm biased!
Your goal of finding a "good" medium bore double for $4000 or so is admirable, but not really realistic. Do your research, save some more, and get what you really want. You will be happy!
I like both. This is what I did:
I can't abide the asking price for a "proper" British double but admire their artistry, style, and history. But $20,000 and up is too much for me. So I have a solid and serviceable German Merkel 140AE that shoots a grand old British cartridge, .450-400 3" Nitro Express. ( .400 Jefferey) My eyes don't agree with iron sights any more so I have it fitted with excellent Recknagel QD scope mounts and a nice 1-4x Kaps scope. It shoots accurately, handles well, and efficiently killed the Cape Buffalo and bull Elk that I have hunted with it. I have under $10,000 invested.
I also admire the European tradition of hunting driven game with a quick handling medium bore double rifle. Having hunted in Germany a few times broadened my horizons a bit. It's not only the Brits who know how to make good doubles, no matter what so many Americans or Aussies say. The Germans, Austrians, Italians, etc. are not so constrained. So they make some very lively, accurate, and relatively affordable O/U double rifles specifically for hunting Battue, Druckjagd, or whatever you call European game driven to the gun.
Mine is a Beretta Silver Sable O/U in 9.3x74R. Based on their proven technology and built on a 20 ga. frame, it is much more lively and responsive than my SxS. It shoots quickly and accurately with the fibre optic open sights at close range, and very accurately with the S&B 1.5-8x42 illuminated scope at any reasonable range and in any light. The fallacy of an O/U being too slow to load is just that. A story made up by anglophile sxs double lovers. I've used mine for a couple of local bears so far. That rifle is also under $10,000 all in. Beretta doesn't make the silver sable any more, but several European makers do make something similar.
My advice is to stay away from single triggers, double triggers are more reliable, more traditional, and always work. They do take a little getting used to. If you like the super modern approach taken by Blaser and a few others, there is nothing wrong with that. Function trumps style, as long as you like the style. Be aware that double rifles in side x side configuration are challenging to fit with a scope. A scope can be used, but the barrels may not regulate well if the rifle was not fitted with a scope at the factory. One of the great virtues of modern European medium bore doubles is user barrel regulation, via a screw/wedge arrangement near the muzzle. That option is only available on guns of moderate bore size, usually 9.3 and below. It allows use of scope or no, or different ammunition, with accurate convergence of both barrels at point of aim. If you can't buy the exact ammunition that a double with fixed barrels was regulated with, be prepared for a hefty bill to re-regulate or a long process of load development. And rimmed cartridges are the way to go. A good double can be made for a rimless cartridge, but it's a mismatch of technology in my opinion. Of course I'm biased!
Your goal of finding a "good" medium bore double for $4000 or so is admirable, but not really realistic. Do your research, save some more, and get what you really want. You will be happy!
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when time and family health will be better i will go the range with you. mine is a single trigger old valmet 412 with 9.3x74r. so an over under often not appreciate by the stylish english way but like a mauser 98 or derivative it s a working tool not a winner in a beauty contest. it s fitted with a masi qd system and a leupold vx3 1.5-5x20 in a german 4 ...
i ve seen them used as well for battue but i ve seen them used in many different calibers for bear and bison hunting here and with the right bullet and the right barrel you can have longer shot that you need.
we have a friend using one in 7x65r fr sheep hunting far from what the specialist are telling you what can be done with ...
