Double rifles
- Thread starter 444shooter
- Start date
OK, I'm open to discuss this w/o getting into a nasty debate.
Answer this ..... How would a good double in 303 not be just about perfect for deer hunting? Keep in mind that you're western style of hunt may vary from what we would do in the east.
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A scoped double rifle in 303?
Something like this?
Handles very well. One trigger is also a single set, if you want it. Made in the 20's with a Zeis scope. Quick detachable. Does not lose zero.
Jim .... Any more pics and deatils of that beauty?
Either way, I'll take it!
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If I had to nominate my favourite rifle, I think would be it. The scope is a 3X German (what else) post. Handles like a dream. One could even carry two different bullets if needed for some reason.
I am told the trigger guard is horn.
But it has expensive taste. The only bullet that superimposes well is the Barnes X in 180 gr over Vht N150.
But I fibbed. It is not 303. It is 8mm rimmed. A German equivlent. 8x60R. About 308 in power.
I have dies and a couple hunderd rounds of factory ammo. 444Marlin brass necks down nicley, too.
This would not be a cheap rifle to buy.
I am told the trigger guard is horn.
But it has expensive taste. The only bullet that superimposes well is the Barnes X in 180 gr over Vht N150.
But I fibbed. It is not 303. It is 8mm rimmed. A German equivlent. 8x60R. About 308 in power.
I have dies and a couple hunderd rounds of factory ammo. 444Marlin brass necks down nicley, too.
This would not be a cheap rifle to buy.
Anyone who thinks a double is not a good deer rifle hasn't the experience to cast his opinions. They're also a great bear, moose, elk gun. No they're not a beanfield rifle, but instead an excellent bush gun out to 150 yards. I've never lost anything by using one!
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
A double could certainly be a good deer rifle, but not necessarily good for everyone. My experience with doubles has left me unappreciative of them, not that I don't appreciate the workmanship that has gone into the building of a fine piece of machinery, or that I don't appreciate the concept of a double, because I do. I just did not gain a comfort level with that rifle, after having it as a constant companion for 10 days, that I had expected.
The rear express sight, on the example I used, was too deep and as a result tended to block out the target. Opening the rifle required a "technique" that seemed beyond my ability to master in any natural way, and I was told this technique was common to all big bore doubles. The rifle I used had extractors rather than ejectors which, like the sights, could be resolved with the choice of a different rifle, but seemed to me to be a poor idea on a dangerous game rifle.
Much is made of the speed of the second shot from a double, but for this second shot to be useful, if must be made accurately. In the time it takes a powerful rifle to be brought down from recoil and the target reacquired, I have time to cycle a bolt, acquire the target, and fire the second shot nearly as quickly, and if a third shot is required there is no contest.
I believe that in the field the doubles best qualities are its short length and wonderful balance, and the redundancy of two separate firing systems. Suffice to say that the choice of a double over any other action is a personal choice as well as a practical choice.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
Fairly recently, an addition to my reading material, are three more books by Keith. I've just started on chapter IX, The Double Rifle in his book 'Keith's Rifles for Large Game. I'd love to have a good quality double, mainly for the fact of just having one more than anything.
From of what I've read so far, I can appreciate it as a choice for someone especially under conditions and situations of large dangerous game, at close quarters and where thick cover terrain is encountered.
I'd love to have a good one to 'play' with though.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Hell, I'd take a double in just about any rimmed chambering. While I'm not generally a huge fan of scoped doubles, (my taste in rifles tends toward bigger calibers and open signts) I can fully appreciate a scoped medium caliber rifle for plains game in the veldt or out in the open in North America. They're not ideal in all circumstances, but can be made to work for pretty much everything.
I'd gladly use Jim's rifle for anything I hunt. And yes, that trigger guard appears to be buffalo horn.
I'd gladly use Jim's rifle for anything I hunt. And yes, that trigger guard appears to be buffalo horn.
A.303 double is something that I would dearly love -- had a chance at one a few years back - a Scottish maker - it quickly went out of my reach at auction!
Once you live with one that fitas you and becomes part of you, I dont see how you would want anything else for what it is designed for.
doubles (in my view especially over and under ) in medium calibers with a scope can be every bit as accurate at 3-500 yds as a decent bolt gun. If you can shoot a 45/70 or larger Sharps at long distance accurately - why cant you shoot a double in 9.3 x 74 or 8mm or .303 or 450#2?
It is wayyyyyyy more fun to hunt imho
hey I like shooting with a 30/378 at distance also
- but I think nothing beats the sxs big bore double for up and close action against something that can hurt you. BTW the .470 is generally more accepted cause there are more of them and the .500 is more rare and harder to handle quickly for many opeartors.
Once you live with one that fitas you and becomes part of you, I dont see how you would want anything else for what it is designed for.
doubles (in my view especially over and under ) in medium calibers with a scope can be every bit as accurate at 3-500 yds as a decent bolt gun. If you can shoot a 45/70 or larger Sharps at long distance accurately - why cant you shoot a double in 9.3 x 74 or 8mm or .303 or 450#2?
It is wayyyyyyy more fun to hunt imho
hey I like shooting with a 30/378 at distance also
- but I think nothing beats the sxs big bore double for up and close action against something that can hurt you. BTW the .470 is generally more accepted cause there are more of them and the .500 is more rare and harder to handle quickly for many opeartors.
A double rifle is a great gun when you hunt the most dangerous game on this planet.
You need a double rifle simply because you need a quick or almost instant second shot when no semi is capable to handle the chamber pressure and bolt action is not fast enough.
I wish I have the money to buy a Beretta 455 but is there really a use in North America...no but for the sake and fun of owning a double rifle I think the Baikal MP221 is a cheap alternative to own a double if you are not going to the Africa.
You need a double rifle simply because you need a quick or almost instant second shot when no semi is capable to handle the chamber pressure and bolt action is not fast enough.
I wish I have the money to buy a Beretta 455 but is there really a use in North America...no but for the sake and fun of owning a double rifle I think the Baikal MP221 is a cheap alternative to own a double if you are not going to the Africa.
The price of doubles precludes everyone from getting one as another toy to play with. I have cars that cost me less.
But there are some cheaper ones out there. I have a 375 H&H O/U by Brno that is very well made, has good express sights and a solid steel scope base, if you want to go that way. With doubles I use a scope for load development.
It has ejectors. When you open the action the fired empty case(s) pop over your shoulder. An unfired round stays in the chamber. This rifle is not outlandishly expensive. I an guessing a good used one could be had for $2,500. And Brno even has a cheaper version in 12 ga and 7mmx57.
But there are some cheaper ones out there. I have a 375 H&H O/U by Brno that is very well made, has good express sights and a solid steel scope base, if you want to go that way. With doubles I use a scope for load development.
It has ejectors. When you open the action the fired empty case(s) pop over your shoulder. An unfired round stays in the chamber. This rifle is not outlandishly expensive. I an guessing a good used one could be had for $2,500. And Brno even has a cheaper version in 12 ga and 7mmx57.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
True enough, but you've got to keep a positive thought and have a plan. I'm sure one day I'll get one like the one I saw in Lever Arms in Vancouver years ago. A H&H in 375 H&H and my positive thought, one day I will have one. Now, my plan, go practice my 649 happy dance.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Here's a short clip of my first experience with a double, in this case a John Wilkes .500 Nitro. I've posted this once or twice before, so some of you may of seen it already, to those who haven't I apologize for the quality, and that the sound doesn't always match the action. It starts with my partner shooting his .375 over the hood of the Land Cruiser, and then cuts to me. The end of the clip shows what can happen to the uninitiated.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
Sure Boomer, way to go, tease me. I'm practicing my 649 Happy Dance.Thanks for sharing the video.
. I'm practicing my 649 Happy Dance.Thanks for sharing the video.Here are some pictures of a double 8x60R. Weighs about 9 pounds. A very handy rifle.
The details I describe are about the quality of craftsmanship for a handmade rifle dating to the 20's. It is the only rifle I have that has this kind of workmanship. It just happens to be a double. I am sure there are bolt guns from that era with the same quality.
The screws are all hand made. They were finished so that heads are perfectly flush and the slots were all cut so they lined up horizontaly. This picture shows 3 such screws. I hope they show up.
The Zeis scope is clear and sharp and has good eye relief and field of view. It is mounted on claw mounts that pop it on and off without any loss of zero.
The iron sights are solid steel, front and back. The rear sight has what looks like a mother of pearl inlay. Sort of the original 3 dot sight.
The wood has a very fine pitch checkering. There is a very small black inlay diamond to the rear of the action. Don't know if it is bone or wood.
I am not a student of doubles or old world craftsmanship, but this rifle never fails to impress me when i pick it up. And when I shoot it, it works perfectly. Lots of power too. 8X60R is about 30-06 level. There is a heavy duty version loaded that is reputed to be 300 H&H Mag power.
The details I describe are about the quality of craftsmanship for a handmade rifle dating to the 20's. It is the only rifle I have that has this kind of workmanship. It just happens to be a double. I am sure there are bolt guns from that era with the same quality.
The screws are all hand made. They were finished so that heads are perfectly flush and the slots were all cut so they lined up horizontaly. This picture shows 3 such screws. I hope they show up.
The Zeis scope is clear and sharp and has good eye relief and field of view. It is mounted on claw mounts that pop it on and off without any loss of zero.
The iron sights are solid steel, front and back. The rear sight has what looks like a mother of pearl inlay. Sort of the original 3 dot sight.
The wood has a very fine pitch checkering. There is a very small black inlay diamond to the rear of the action. Don't know if it is bone or wood.
I am not a student of doubles or old world craftsmanship, but this rifle never fails to impress me when i pick it up. And when I shoot it, it works perfectly. Lots of power too. 8X60R is about 30-06 level. There is a heavy duty version loaded that is reputed to be 300 H&H Mag power.
Regarding scoped double 303
Please qualify what you mean, it sounds like you have a wealth of experience.
You must be joking.
Please qualify what you mean, it sounds like you have a wealth of experience.
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Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
Here are some pictures of a double 8x60R. Weighs about 9 pounds. A very handy rifle.
The details I describe are about the quality of craftsmanship for a handmade rifle dating to the 20's. It is the only rifle I have that has this kind of workmanship. It just happens to be a double. I am sure there are bolt guns from that era with the same quality.
The screws are all hand made. They were finished so that heads are perfectly flush and the slots were all cut so they lined up horizontaly. This picture shows 3 such screws. I hope they show up.
The Zeis scope is clear and sharp and has good eye relief and field of view. It is mounted on claw mounts that pop it on and off without any loss of zero.
The iron sights are solid steel, front and back. The rear sight has what looks like a mother of pearl inlay. Sort of the original 3 dot sight.
The wood has a very fine pitch checkering. There is a very small black inlay diamond to the rear of the action. Don't know if it is bone or wood.
I am not a student of doubles or old world craftsmanship, but this rifle never fails to impress me when i pick it up. And when I shoot it, it works perfectly. Lots of power too. 8X60R is about 30-06 level. There is a heavy duty version loaded that is reputed to be 300 H&H Mag power.
My compliaments. A thing of beauty.
