Double Tap 10mm ammo
- Thread starter ganymede
- Start date
If you want full throttle type stuff you gotta make them yourself. I only see 3 types of ammo with any regularity. Federal and Remington 180 grain FMJs and Winchester 175 grain Silvertips. The Federal and Remington 180's are ok but expensive and watered down. The Silvertips are alright too, very expensive though and also much slower than claimed by Win. I had a box with a few squibs in it as well. Something like that sure destroys your confidence in "premium" ammo...
- Location
- Edmonton, AB
Oh no.... not another 10mm shooter.... brass is already hard to get cheap!
It's not that hard to find in the US but as we can't use handguns for hunting in Canada, and we can't carry them for self-defense, I guess those who import ammo for sale consider a full power round excessive for target shooting </irony>
Stiff loads in calibers like 10mm often results in the slide opening too fast, so fast even that it impacts the velocity and volume of gas pushing the bullet. This makes huge spreads in velocity, in order of +/-100-200ft/s. Often solved by installing the stiffest main spring that will still allow the gun to cycle. Try it yourself, get a stock glock 20, a chrony, and 200gr 10mm bullets pushed with a powder load that would be supposed to send it at 1200ft/s. Make identical rounds, weight them all, every powder load, size everything perfectly, and chrony them.
You'll get insane spread and low velocity compared to what it should be.
Stick a spring that's 5-10lbs stiffer, and watch the same load perform as it should, or close. Stick a stiffer spring yet, until you get jams - then you know to use the one step down from the "so stiff it jams" spring. You can install a muzzle break to help as well, they pull on the barrel forwards as the recoil is trying to drive the whole thing backwards, and keep it in battery for a little bit longer.
I wouldn't blame DT for inconstant performance unless I saw it myself. All I hear from the revolver or rifle ammo is good stuff, so unless they royally messed up on all their autoloader calibers, I think it's just people not knowing that you can load it hotter than the pistol can "take" (not as in explode, unless you're way out of SAAMI specs, and these loads are on the edge, but as in so hot loads that it drives the pistol out of battery before the bullet is far enough from the barrel - remember, the gasses are pushing on the round up to a foot past the barrel, and you can seriously have the action opening and gasses escaping from the breech even before the round is out of the barrel.)
Uhh thanks. I am very familiar with Glock 20s and 10mm. My opinion of DT is based on the 200 rounds I put over my chronograph. I don't just spew crap I read on the internet. DT has a huge velocity spread because of poor quality control, that's my best guess anyway. I wish I'd pulled some rounds and weighed the charges.
I use heavier springs to increase lock time to save wear on my brass. It's also nice not to have to look for it over in the next county.
One last thing, if your gun is opens up enough to eject the brass before the bullet leaves the barrel you have a major problem on your hands. Otherwise the same amount of gas is leaving the barrel, pushing the bullet. Gases outside a barrel actually disturb the bullet and slow it. That is why suppressors often increase velocity.
I use heavier springs to increase lock time to save wear on my brass. It's also nice not to have to look for it over in the next county.
One last thing, if your gun is opens up enough to eject the brass before the bullet leaves the barrel you have a major problem on your hands. Otherwise the same amount of gas is leaving the barrel, pushing the bullet. Gases outside a barrel actually disturb the bullet and slow it. That is why suppressors often increase velocity.
Okay, you tried them and have the proper setup. I can now accept that those DT rounds aren't all what they're cracked up to be.
What?
Just... What? So as the bullet has just exited from the barrel, the gasses still coming out of the barrel, going in the same direction, hitting the read of the bullet, are NOT making it go faster? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA XD, now that I won't swallow.
The gasses are actually going faster than the bullet and pushing it a bit more, making it go faster. That's why a crown is so important for accuracy, it forms the gas column in a uniform fashion that will push on the bullet evenly. That's why wrecking a crown will make an MOA-shooting rifle into a 5 MOA shooting-rifle.
Also, suppressors increase velocity because the form a near gas seal (read "near" seal, a good suppressor unless it's a wipe-type never contacts the bullet, and those that contact are quieter but wear out fast and are very negative for ballistics) and that increases the pressure behind the barrel, pushing the bullet for the length of the suppressor. That high pressure environment is what's increasing velocity. A good suppressor will be made precisely to be very even on the inside, so the chambers pressurize evenly, if one side gets more pressure, the bullet is thrown off a little, speed is lost and it makes more noise.
What?
Just... What? So as the bullet has just exited from the barrel, the gasses still coming out of the barrel, going in the same direction, hitting the read of the bullet, are NOT making it go faster? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA XD, now that I won't swallow.
The gasses are actually going faster than the bullet and pushing it a bit more, making it go faster. That's why a crown is so important for accuracy, it forms the gas column in a uniform fashion that will push on the bullet evenly. That's why wrecking a crown will make an MOA-shooting rifle into a 5 MOA shooting-rifle.
Also, suppressors increase velocity because the form a near gas seal (read "near" seal, a good suppressor unless it's a wipe-type never contacts the bullet, and those that contact are quieter but wear out fast and are very negative for ballistics) and that increases the pressure behind the barrel, pushing the bullet for the length of the suppressor. That high pressure environment is what's increasing velocity. A good suppressor will be made precisely to be very even on the inside, so the chambers pressurize evenly, if one side gets more pressure, the bullet is thrown off a little, speed is lost and it makes more noise.
!
I don't know what is going on with DT today and I have never bought/fired DT ammo, I do not buy factory ammo and reload almost everything I shoot myself here is a little history on Mike of DT.
He was posting on Glock Talk 10mm Reloading forum for a very long time before he started DT his data/experiments on reloading 10mm's especially with IMR800X were the very best at the time.
If his data before he was able to get a powder company to make him a proprioty powder designed to his spec's for the 10mm was as good as after he was able to get that powder I cannot see that there could be much wrong with it.
I look to Mike like this without his work we may still be stuck in the world of anemic 10mm data for reloaders, I have talked with Mike many times over the years and have always when I hung up the phone been very impressed with him...
He is the 10mm guru that I look up to more than any other person that has shared their 10mm work.
He was posting on Glock Talk 10mm Reloading forum for a very long time before he started DT his data/experiments on reloading 10mm's especially with IMR800X were the very best at the time.
If his data before he was able to get a powder company to make him a proprioty powder designed to his spec's for the 10mm was as good as after he was able to get that powder I cannot see that there could be much wrong with it.
I look to Mike like this without his work we may still be stuck in the world of anemic 10mm data for reloaders, I have talked with Mike many times over the years and have always when I hung up the phone been very impressed with him...
He is the 10mm guru that I look up to more than any other person that has shared their 10mm work.
Whether or not Mike is a good guy (I agree) is not the issue. His ammo is not what he says it is, at least the 200xtp and 135 Nosler loads. I used the exact same pistol as Mcnett as well as several others. His claims are exaggerations\lies. I'd love to do more testing but it was a stroke of luck finding the ammo. Besides CC, you are the one that told me DT wasn't that great in the first place.
