Downloading a .300 win mag.

DOUGLAS D said:
I'd be interested in seeing the actual difference on whitetail deer tissue given same or close to same shot placement.
A 150 grain Hornady at 2800 fps or a 180 grain Hornady at 2900 to 3000 fps.

Actually I already have (many times) and there is none.
Zero.
Zip.
Nada.
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Less powder, cheaper bullets, more trigger-time. :cool:
 
R1911,

I really like the 165 grain partition as you have been using as an all around 30 cal bullet at .30-06 velocity. That was my main rifle/load for the last few years. Incidentally, I'm moving to a slower bullet/cartridge combination (225 gr in a 358 win) for partly the same reasons you are wanting to back off the velocities.

htt p://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp lists starting loads right in the range as people have said. You can easily further back off the 'jellyfication' effect of the velocity by going up to a 180 grain bullet. - more options there with plain simple starting loads to get into the velocity range that it seems you want.

I have shot the 165 grain .30-06 load into deer both through the ribs and through the shoulder. Certainly the shoulder damages vastly more meat, but there is a good bit of shock effect on the rib shots too - the bruised up area can extend over a large area of flank - only it's poor meat there anyhow that is a lot of work cut.

RG

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I have a 7mag right now that I'm constantly trying to turn into a 7x57 by downloading. I can do so using the 60% rule with IMR4895 but with varying degrees of success. What I find is that accuracy suffers as velocity goes down - moving a 1 MOA gun into 3 MOA. No problem IF you keep shots under 250 yards or so but not a very "interesting" load to play with at the range. ;)

My recommendation would be to get a 308 or the 303 british in a strong front-locking action like a p-14 so you aren't having to deal with web thinning.
 
Reducing the amount of bloodshot meat is a dubious reason to change loads (or guns). You'll spend a lot of time and possibly money to gain very little if anything, as shot placement is the biggest factor in reducing damaged meat.

There are many published loads that will produce numbers similar to top end 30/06 and 308, but I doubt that they will be the most accurate loads in your gun. You're best off to choose a quality bullet of an appropriate weight for all the game you will be hunting (the 165 is good for deer and moose), develop a load that shoots best, and stick with it. If your gun is a good shooter and you shoot 300 Win Mag well (no flinch, etc.), I'd keep it.
 
I picked up a Husky '06 carbine topped with a old steel Weaver K-4 for my 13 year old nephew and loaded some 130 gr TSXs @ 2600 for his hunting bullets and some cast for practice. IMHO, his dad, my pin head brother, didn't give him enough range time before he took it hunting, but that didn't save the deer. This bullet loaded to 3K from a .300 Winchester should produce decent accuracy with manageable recoil and tolerable blast.

Another option is to load a very heavy bullet, say a lead core 220 gr at 2500. This bullet will produce less upset on a light framed animal like a deer. The powder charge will be smaller due to the heavy bullet and moderate velocity. Again recoil and blast will be moderate and accuracy should be within suitable limits.
 
Rifleman1911 said:
Well Before I got into hand loading I purchased this rifle and I was told ( ya I know I Know)
that I could make it shoot like a .308 or a 30/06, and I kinda doubted it. But I never tried as I was worried about having too much pressure in the barrel, but I was not sure so I never tried. I found a Factory ammo that the rifle likes and groups really well with so I bought 6 boxes of the stuff to get the same lot # for about 32.00$ a box.


In august I went and sighted in the rifle and had to tweak the scope and ended up using almost all of the remaining ammo I had left from 6-7 years ago.

Last Friday I went and bought 1 box of the same stuff, Federal Premium, Vital Shok 165 Nosler Partition for $62 and change.:(

I guess for that price it should kill stuff well.

I have just been handloading for my milsurps and using this stuff for my hunting rifle.

Mabye I should just sell it and buy the same thing in SS .308 or .30/06

The more I think about it the more I realize that it was a stupid question.

Rifleman
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I was in my local Canadian Tire last weekend looking at ammo and noticed they had Winchester Super X in 300 win mag, 180g for $27 for 20 round. I found this interesting as a friend of mine went out a month ago to buy more rounds for his 300 winmag at a local gun shop before he went moose hunting, and he said he paid almost $100 for 20 rds of 220g ammo.
Look around for ammo, prices seem to vary for that calibre. I think the the 180g for under $30 in 300 winmag will drop a moose just as well as 220g for $100 (taxes in) and keep more cash in wallet. Try to be more careful about shot placement.
 
The starting loads in the Hornady manual for a 300 Win Mag are just about the same as the end loads for a .30-06. If you want to really slow down the velocity, with the thought it might create less damage, you could use a 220 grain round nose for 2400 fps. However, you might be better advised to shoot for the boiler room with your current load rather than looking for another shoulder shot with a reduced load.
 
Well guys, thanks for all of the great opinions and suggestions, My brother and my father have all ways used the 7mm rem mag, but I started out useing the .308 in an old rem 742 that finally wore out, so when it came time to look for a new hunting rifle I got convinced that a mag rifle was the way to go.

I like the Styer in .300 even if it is heavy and I like the tack driver that it is.

I guess that I just need to work a little harder on shot placement next year and I am going to develop some handloads for it as I allready have the dies for it.

I really want to thank all of you for letting me pick you brains.

Rifleman
 
Kenny_G2 said:
Don't shoot deer in the shoulder if you can help it. I don't think it will matter much if you download it. I'd rather have a fast humane kill than worry about a bit of lost shoulder meat.

I have shot a few deer in the shoulder with different calibers from 243 to 338. They all ruin lots of meat.
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Ditto. Put the shot behind the shoulder in the ribcage. Almost all my deer have been taken with a 300 Win Mag and 165gr Partition or Ballistic Tips.
 
I use a 300 mag and 308 winchester with both using a remington 150gr core lokt bullet. I carry the 300 for longer shots and the 308 for closer like under 200 yards. the 300 has alot more hitting energy. Both will ruin meat with a shoulder hit for sure. We took 2 deer with the 308 and were kidney shots and one caught part of the liver too. We still lost a few ribs to trauma. I would just lighten up your bullet weight if I were you, even see if you can load a 125-130 grain, IMO 165 and up is way overkill on a deer
 
Rifleman1911 said:
I harvested a white tail buck yesterday with my .300 win mag and the exit of the bullet just smashed the sholder when it exited.

I knew that the caliber is a lot of over kill for deer hunting, but I cannot justify buying a second hunting rifle in .270 or .308.

I was wondering if it would be safe to download the powder charge for my .300 in the FPS range of the .308 or the .30/06.

Now I cant think of any factors that would not make this possable but I have never downgraded the powder charge without worrying about the bullet getting stuck in the barrell.

The bullet would not change and I still could resight it for the regular charges when I would move to moose or shooting deer at longer ranges and still could use the same rifle.

I just can't justify buying a second hunting rifle, If a I did I might as well sell my .300 win mag, as I whould not use it enough to justify haveing it.


Rifleman.
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:D
I own 2 x .300 Win. Mags & several .308 Win. 's + a Savage Model 116 stainless in .30-06 & I can tell you that I'll pick one of my non magnums for deer hunting not just because of the lower recoil & the fact that the .300 mags would be "over kill" for deer in most cases but because there is a lot less fatigue involved in carrying a rifle with a 22" bbl. that weighs 5.5 - 6 pounds full dressed than one with a 26" bbl. that weighs 8 - 9 pounds.

The .300 mags make great long range stand guns when hunting moose in the vast clear cuts in Northern Ontario but there's no way I'm lugging one of those 9 pound bazookas through the bush all day deer hunting when there's no need for it.

You can download the ammo for the magnum guns all you want but you still have 9 pounds of hardware to drag through the tag alders.

If you do a lot of deer hunting a lighter non magnum .30 caliber rifle is almost a must.

A .308 Win. or .30-06 Savage bolt action can be had quite cheaply & my Savage Model 116 in .30-06 is one of the most accurate, dependable guns I own.

Even if the budget is tight it's definitely something to think about on the way to town for that $60 carton of "smokes" or the $40 case of beer that you can "justify".

I never deprive myself of something I want because like my daddy used to say, "Son if you really want it, get it, because you're going to be a long time dead."
 
aletheuo said:
I have a 7mag right now that I'm constantly trying to turn into a 7x57 by downloading. I can do so using the 60% rule with IMR4895 but with varying degrees of success. What I find is that accuracy suffers as velocity goes down - moving a 1 MOA gun into 3 MOA.
Click to expand...

60% load density is way too close to allowing a flash over in my opinion. I try and keep all my loads over 80% and find accuracy generally improves the closer I get to 95%.

I did not mean to come across snarky, I just was not sure how well you understood the ramifications of going "too low" with your powder charge. BTW, I agree with most posters here that shot placement is the major contributor to your situation.

Cheers.
 
Pudelpointer said:
60% load density is way too close to allowing a flash over in my opinion. I try and keep all my loads over 80% and find accuracy generally improves the closer I get to 95%.

I did not mean to come across snarky, I just was not sure how well you understood the ramifications of going "too low" with your powder charge. BTW, I agree with most posters here that shot placement is the major contributor to your situation.

Cheers.
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I was concerned with this as well and so I consulted an expert - the gunwriter John Barsness who regularly posts on 24hourcampfire - he has lots of experience with downloading with both 4895's and has never had an issue nor heard of any. In fact, he said you could even go further than 60% with little risk.

Furthermore, the flashover theory is just that, a theory. Of all of the stuff I read about it (and I read a bunch before trying to download) there is no conclusive evidence (IMHO) that it's not just an accidental double-charge.

That said - in my experience, downloading is still no substitute for an appropriate cartridge for the job.
 
.300 mag

you can try the following
150gr 54gr 4895
165gr 53gr 4895 or 4064
180gr 52gr 4895 0r 4064 or4320

These loads are about same power as .300 savage which is a good deer cartridge.
 
aletheuo said:
Furthermore, the flashover theory is just that, a theory. Of all of the stuff I read about it (and I read a bunch before trying to download) there is no conclusive evidence (IMHO) that it's not just an accidental double-charge.
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Double charges happen often in pistols causing issues, but how can you get a double charge into almost any rifle cartridge? Your load would have to be <50% to start with. A theory is a well accepted hypothesis, and flash-over is an accepted theory. If you want to mess with low density loads, feel free, just warn those close to you at the range so they have a chance to move.

Contrary to what a few posters on here believe, powder burns progressively through the powder charge. I believe a number of powder / bullet manufacturers have experimented with this and I will trust them over some writer. If the powder column ignites at once, pressure results.

Cheers.
 
Pudelpointer said:
Double charges happen often in pistols causing issues, but how can you get a double charge into almost any rifle cartridge? Your load would have to be <50% to start with.
Click to expand...

60% load recommendation is 60% of max charge, not 60% of case volume as per http://ww w.hodgdon.com/PDF/Youth%20Loads.pdf.

Any charge approaching 50% of max charge is always capable of double-charging thus the 60% guideline.
 
I find it interesting that many folks say don't download or try to turn the .300 Win Mag into something "it isn't". One of the advantages of having a cartridge like the .300 Win Mag is that you can adjust the load to the game. You can load it to .308 Win levels for practice (less recoil, powder, extended case life) or for situations where you don't want or need maximum performance. You can easily have the performance of 3 rifles in one - .30-30, .308 Win/ .30-06, and .300 Win Mag. Not to mention the fact you can use Speer's 100gr Plinker with SR4759 @ 1600-1900fps for grouse, rabbits and other small game (I use an insert that fires .32 ACP).

The possibilities:

150 gr @ 2700 - +3200fps
165 gr @ 2600 - +3200fps
180 gr @ 2500 - 3100 fps
200 gr @ 2450 - 3000 fps
220 gr @ 2450 - 2850 fps
240 gr @ 2250 - 2600 fps

None of those velocities are from "reduced" loads.

BTW, my .300 Win Mag weighs in at 7.25 lbs with scope.
 
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