Dq

TRaTSeRiF said:
...I DQ'd myself once for leaving a shell in the shotgun before transitioning to rifle. No excuses, should have known better, never repeated that mistake again. Was my first 3gun match, so inexperience came to play but I should have still checked the chamber before transitioning. It only inspired me to be more careful and I shot a couple more matches with the same crew since they really know how to have fun out there :) No other DQ's so far but, they can happen to anyone.
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And you dusted yourself off, stuck around, and exhibited the sportsmen like conduct that earned you the respect of that crew.
 
TRaTSeRiF said:
I DQ'd myself once for leaving a shell in the shotgun before transitioning to rifle. No excuses, should have known better, never repeated that mistake again. Was my first 3gun match, so inexperience came to play but I should have still checked the chamber before transitioning. It only inspired me to be more careful and I shot a couple more matches with the same crew since they really know how to have fun out there :) No other DQ's so far but, they can happen to anyone.
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Are you slinging the shotgun or something weird in that scenario?

I dump my shotgun all the time into barrels on-safe, mag-in, one in the chamber. That's SOP at most of the 3-Guns I shoot.
 
Regarding "all the DQs in IPSC", I'd say there are more in IPSC most of the other shooting sports for a few reasons, the biggest being, well, IPSC is the biggest. We have more competitions with more competitors (of all skill levels) then probably all the other action shooting sports combined. So you will hear about more DQs just because of that. Now percentage wise we could have more as well, and that's likely due to a number of factors, IPSC definitely sees a lot more the serious competitors than a lot of the other sports (3 Gun Nation not included in that though) and as such you will see people pushing harder and taking more chances, and that catches the odd person. As well IPSC has a pretty large turnover rate of participants, so new blood is constantly flowing through, and new blood is where you will see the most DQs and that doesn't always reflect on the training they've received, it reflects more on a persons inability to know their own limits, or their lack of situational awareness while under the stress of competition. In some sports you'll get warned when you get close to a bad thing, or even a warning for the first bad thing you do, in IPSC you simply get called when you do that bad thing. And then you are done for the match.
 
Howdy; Saw a sad one at a cowboy match last week. At the loading table the person missed the holster. What a dead clatter a revolver makes as it bounces around on concrete a floor. Match DQ!
 
Seen that done a few times ....

More common to see a competitor knock over his own rifle/shotgun gun with a foot after placing it empty, action open, by placing it on the wrong side of a wooden dowel rack.
Horizontal tables (the current standard) at windows present a similar problem. Bump the butt stock and it could wind up in the dirt. Same with hay bales.
 
Onthebeep:
I was there too ... incredible stages. TWO "challenging" stages - running up an almost vertical wall - another jumping off about a five foot start platform into a small shooting box ( demanding holster retention test) - someone broke an ankle. If you were "in the running" you had to push the envelop but most of us just wanted to "survive" the five days of shooting!!!
 
Stevo said:
Wow. That's pathetic. Based on what perceived wrong?

If it's not safe to dump a couple rounds, it's not safe to be shooting at the targets that were there a few seconds ago.
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The argument is that you're not purposefully engaging anymore. And I can totally see it in the states where you'd have guys burning through 10-15 remaining rifle rounds before ditching it.

That still doesn't explain the "guns must be abandoned empty with the action open and safety on" side of things. If your dump barrel is facing in a direction that's unsafe, fix the damn dump barrel!

Maybe they don't trust anyone outside of the RO's to clear a firearm? Because that's a step in the reset for all the shoots I'm at. No one is going forward of the line to patch until the abandoned firearms are cleared from the course.
 
TV-PressPass said:
The argument is that you're not purposefully engaging anymore. And I can totally see it in the states where you'd have guys burning through 10-15 remaining rifle rounds before ditching it.

That still doesn't explain the "guns must be abandoned empty with the action open and safety on" side of things. If your dump barrel is facing in a direction that's unsafe, fix the damn dump barrel!

Maybe they don't trust anyone outside of the RO's to clear a firearm? Because that's a step in the reset for all the shoots I'm at. No one is going forward of the line to patch until the abandoned firearms are cleared from the course.
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But how does "not purposefully engaging" rate a DQ? DQs should be for unsafe actions. It's like being DQ'd for "failure to do right" in IDPA.

I've burned rounds to setup a slug load, or in order to dump a locked open shotgun to save fumbling for the safety, as have a lot of guys up here. It never even crossed anyones mind that it should rate a penalty, let alone a DQ.

Edit: There's no point to burning more than a couple rounds in any of the 3 guns. It gets counter-productive time wise after that.
 
rodregier said:
Takes a big man to grab a patch gun and continue.
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stormbringer said:
I will continue to hand out DQ Gift cards at my larger matches.
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As long as the rules are made clear before I start a stage, I could care less what behaviour can lead to a DQ. Every other shooter before and after me is going to have to do the same.

At our multigun matches at Galt, burned rounds are no problem. We have, however, always had shooters dump guns empty and magazine removed. Why? Well I guess it is because of 2 things: 1) it is what we experienced at other matches that we attended prior to hosting our own events and 2) abandoning a loaded firearm, regardless of what direction it is pointed at, never seemed like a good habit to get into.
In the 3GunNation events that I've participated in, shooters can abandon loaded firearms provided the safety is engaged. I'm not going to complain that engaging the safety is unnecessary if the "damn dump barrel" is designed appropriately... Their game, their rules. I can adapt or DQ, just like everyone else.
 
TV-PressPass said:
That still doesn't explain the "guns must be abandoned empty with the action open and safety on" side of things. If your dump barrel is facing in a direction that's unsafe, fix the damn dump barrel!

Maybe they don't trust anyone outside of the RO's to clear a firearm? Because that's a step in the reset for all the shoots I'm at. No one is going forward of the line to patch until the abandoned firearms are cleared from the course.
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I fully agree with this. if its safe, its safe. if the firearm goes off in the dump barrel or other holding mechanism, it should at worst be embarrassing, but not unsafe. Or, if the firearm goes off by itself sitting there, maybe that's an issue all on its own.
 
superted said:
Onthebeep:
I was there too ... incredible stages. TWO "challenging" stages - running up an almost vertical wall - another jumping off about a five foot start platform into a small shooting box ( demanding holster retention test) - someone broke an ankle. If you were "in the running" you had to push the envelop but most of us just wanted to "survive" the five days of shooting!!!
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LOL Yes, there was helicopter stage too where another guy twisted his ankle?? I have a bunch of pictures from that match, there was also a story floating around afterwards about a competitor who allegedly jumped off the bus (open top double decker) but I personally doubt that really happened.
 
1riot1ranger said:
The bulk of muzzle safety violations I've seen are not stage design related - although I have seen targets placed too close to the line and a shooter DQ'd because they crossed the 90 line. I would characterize this as being in the small minority of cases.

The 90 DQs that I've seen are:
1) during a reload - engaging targets "cross court" and executing a reload (poor muzzle discipline) -Beyond 90?
2) during a reload - bad form and turned slightly to the left (poor fundamentals) -Beyond 90?
3) during "unload and show clear" pointing a firearm directly upwards (poor fundamentals) -Don't you mean beyond directly up? Directly up would be 90, last I read we had to be past it.
4) movement around a barricade (poor fundamentals/muzzle discipline or awareness) -I'll assume this is breaking 90, seen it on port too- what goes in must come out...
5) forward movement and re-engaging a bypassed target (poor awareness) -Breaking 90, seen it.
6) engaging a target from a port that should not have been engaged from the port (poor awareness)-I'll assume this is for engaging steel at unsafe distances...So yes- DQ. But what was the match Director doing in creating it in the first place and more importantly what was the Range Master doing- it's their job to ensure this can't happen.
7) lateral movement on a stage - pointing the firearm directly in line with direction of travel vs. pointing downrange (poor muzzle discipline/awareness) - again I'll assume that the direction of travel is beyond 90 degrees.

#6 is also a design issue, but I don't think you should have to place a vision barrier behind every set of targets to prevent shooters from looking at them as they move forward.
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You have a bit of an issue in IPSC if you accept the notion of shooting the targets "as visible" - Comstock- and then set up a stage that intentionally removes that ability- especially with a DQable offence- just my opinion.

Also, I can't help but notice how you focused on "at 90"...The rule book the last I read was beyond 90.
Not only do we have a lot of new shooters but we also have (in my opinion) some over savvy RO's who interpret the rules in an overly harsh way at times...
Some rules are entirely dependant on your view point (attitude) and point of view (location).
-You must break 90 (at 90 is not breaking it).
-You must have your finger in the trigger ( the fact that a guy has a bent finger and it's not high on the slide doesn't necessarily mean it was in the trigger...).
-You must take you finger out during a reload- unless your on target ( I hate this rule- was it?...).
-You must have your finger out while changing position or moving. (I give this one to these same RO's- the book is clear. But some RO's are looser with it than others which can cause problems on occasion).

This may come off as ripping the RO's (I'm one) but I'm not in my opinion - or at least the majority of them...
The sport asks a lot of it's competitors and it's officials- and it should.
Shooters are not always perfect, same is true in my opinion on the other end.
I've seen some RO's that literally get off on DQ'ing competitors...
That said, some RO's are a little inexperienced at making any call...
So maybe it all cancels out.
 
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