Drawbacks of a carbine?

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jedimaster

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Well as far as ballistics go, with the current fast burn propellants is there much if any drawback to a carbine version of the same gun? What sort of range limitations or other would you expect to encounter?
 
IIRC you only loose a couple hundred fps or ther abouts.

If you reload, you should be able to make up the loss.

If you told us what cartridge and firearms people could give you more accurate info
 
You lose about 25fps velocity for every 1 " barrel less.

Considering the 30-06 is running at 2600-3200fps 125fps less from a 5" shorter carbine is not going to make much difference in realtiy.

No measurable loss of accuracy for hunting.

The main advantage is they are handier, especially if you are hunting in thick brush, creepers, or in some places from a vehicle if you need to get the rifle ready quickly.

The main disadvantage is they are LOUDER. The muzzle blast is closer to your ears
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there you go
Agan this isnot the end all in info. lots of variables could affect this
 
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Much has to do with the powder capacity of the cartridge and the bore size. If for example you had a .22 caliber cartridge and a .50 caliber cartridge that both held 100 grs of powder, and you began with equal length barrels and shortened them by 1" after each shot, the .22 would loose more velocity for each inch of barrel that was lopped off than would the .50. Think of the bore diameter in terms of volume and it begins to make sense.

I tend to think that adjusting the choice of powder by burn rate doesn't make a lot of difference if we are only talking about a change from a 24" barrel to a 20" barrel. If you are shooting a .30/06 and get the top velocity with a 200 gr bullet by using 4350, the fact that the pressure tops out before that velocity can be reached with 3031 doesn't change. Nor does it change the fact that Retumbo bulks out before the top velocity can be realized.
 
heh. actually, believe it or not i was writing that longass post before you mentioned chucky here.
its just that i absolutely cant stand people presenting and regurgitating internet myth as fact. such as this gem posted on Yahoo answers as an expert opinion:
the Hawkeye will be much better at those distances. if youre shooting beyond 100meters the short barrel lightweight Frontier rifle wont be accurate enough.
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that guy has no idea wtf hes talking about and shouldnt be posting 'answers' to anything. the Frontier would be at least as - if not more - accurate than the Hawkeye at normal hunting ranges.
it drives me up the wall because people seeking information come online and ask a simple question and then they get crap like that.

if i recall, bartell said he doesnt like them because he doesnt like their balance and thinks theyre heavy for a 'compact' gun. thats an objective opinion, stated as opinion, and as such can be valuable to someone considering such a purchase.

people spewing bull#### they just pulled out of their @$$ like compact guns having 'flamethrower muzzle-flash' and 'recoil that would knock King Kong on his ass' only serve to propagate internet myth and ignorance.
 
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got my chucks mixed up!!!!!

Dont kill me but I had a brain fart and got him mixed up with Jeff Cooper.

Had to go to G&A to see my errornous ways
 
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So there will be more drop if you go to a carbine in the same calibre. thats understandable and can be accounted for while sighting. As for knockdown power at say 300 yards for a moose with a 30-06 versus the same gun in a carbine.
Would the moose feel the difference? :)

Also are carbines just chopped off regular versions or do they have an altered rifling?
 
jedimaster said:
Well as far as ballistics go, with the current fast burn propellants is there much if any drawback to a carbine version of the same gun? What sort of range limitations or other would you expect to encounter?
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In my experience there is a loss in velocity (everything being else equal), however I personally do not find that loss enough to cause concern when compared to the versatility of a shorter firearm in the bush.
However there is an associated gain in the perceived muzzle blast that you may very well find objectionable.
 
jedimaster said:
So there will be more drop if you go to a carbine in the same calibre. thats understandable and can be accounted for while sighting. As for knockdown power at say 300 yards for a moose with a 30-06 versus the same gun in a carbine.
Would the moose feel the difference? :)

Also are carbines just chopped off regular versions or do they have an altered rifling?
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The moose would never know the difference provided a suitable bullet was chosen in the first place.

When we talk about manually operated actions (bolt actions, lever actions, slide actions or various styles of single shots) carbines are most often just shorter versions of the rifle version of that particular model. Gas guns (semi-automatics) occasionally need to have modifications made to their gas system when they are built with shorter barrels, as is the case with shortened M-1 Garands.

Rifling is chosen to stabilize a bullet of a certain length, and has nothing to do with barrel length, provided you were not going to specifically shoot heavy for caliber (long) bullets in your carbine. For example, you have a .30 caliber rifle that you have been shooting 150 gr bullets in. If that barrel had a 1:12 twist, the 150 gr bullets would stabilize very well. On the other hand, if you wanted to shoot 240 gr bullets from that rifle, you might have to choose a 1:10 twist to stabilize a 240 gr plain base round nose bullet or even a 1:8 twist to stabilize the longer boat-tail spitzer bullet of the same weight.
 
I talked to a tech at Remington,I asked him about a project I had in mind. I said I have a Rem 700 in 300 Win mag and may cut the barrel from 24 to 20 inches. I wanted to see what the velocity loss would be with this combination, he replied and said that I would lose approximately 120 fps with the loss of 4 inches of barrel length. He said they had done lots of experimenting with barrel length and it's not a big an issue as some will let on....don't listen to Chuck hawks,he's an IDIOT.
 
So then cutting down a Semi 30-06 with say a 165 grain round, wouldn't adversly affect the trajectory accept a few FPS or stability of the round but it may affect the ability to cycle rounds? DOes anyone know if the carbine actions on 742's are different from the normal length 742's?
 
It may shoot even better with a shorter barrel given that there would be less barrel whip. Shorten the barrel and it gets stiffer. For 99% of hunting the velocity penalty of 20fps/in is not even noticible.

Brian
 
it depends on what action it is. gas operated guns may need to have their gas port tuned a bit. some semis have an adjustable gas system, others will need to be taken to a gunsmith to have the gas port enlarged. im sure someone more familiar with semis and your particular model can give you more accurate and specific info.
 
jedimaster said:
Do you think it will still cycle properly if I cut it down to the 18.5" carbine length? The normal length is 22".
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It will function just fine. Take it to your 'smith, have him cut and crown the barrel, reinstall the front sight and head to the range..............then let us know how it shoots.

My bet is that you will be quite pleased. Carbines are very handy rifles, especially in the bush. :cool:

Ted
 
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