just a heads up to those of you who don't follow the Global Village. it seems to be the opinion of most of the GV body, including Vince, that a shooter shall be DQ'd if they do a dry fire on the LAMR. I'm not one to do this very often myself, although I have a few times, however I know a number of shooters who do. Apparently we've been wrong to allow it, I disagree with the rule interpretation as being presented on GV, but expect we'll get an official one soon.
Dry Firing on LAMR
- Thread starter Slavex
- Start date
Well, the intent is obviously to shorten the whole LAMR process. I'm sure we've all seen shooters that go up, do sight picture, dry fire several times on a target so that they can get their mojo up and running.
I guess you have to now get permission from the RO if you accidentally rack the slide back on an "empty gun / hammer forward" start.
I guess you have to now get permission from the RO if you accidentally rack the slide back on an "empty gun / hammer forward" start.
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Seems a bit "range nazi" or "draconian" to me. I'm no fan of dry firing to waste time, but I'm not going to axe someone who does something obviously not unsafe. DQs are for safety violations. Anyway, until IROA or IPSC's executive issue an official interpretation through the proper channels; it's just the opinion of a bunch of keyboard pokers with too much time on thier hands.
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There does seem to be an air of negativity towards the shooters lately, a procedural could be assesed if too much time is taken, but to DQ seems a bit much...makes me think of the times I have heard RO's looking to see how many DQ's they could get at a match.
Perhaps it would be easier to give shooters a set amount of time to prepare, like in High power rifle shooting. Eg, "You have Two minutes to prepare." The shooter can do anything he wants in that time, but after that it's either get ready or step off the line.
Perhaps it would be easier to give shooters a set amount of time to prepare, like in High power rifle shooting. Eg, "You have Two minutes to prepare." The shooter can do anything he wants in that time, but after that it's either get ready or step off the line.
It needs to be consistent, either you allow it or not.. if you go to one match, and it's fine, but another it's not, then that is the problem..
I've only had one shooter who I believe was doing this on purpose, and I reminded him that "are you ready" is a command, it's not a question, and if he choose not to follow the commands, then he could walk to the back of the line.
I've only had one shooter who I believe was doing this on purpose, and I reminded him that "are you ready" is a command, it's not a question, and if he choose not to follow the commands, then he could walk to the back of the line.
it is a command.. there is no question mark, and there is no pause..
Then by the same arguement the Are you ready is a question.
8.3 Range Communication
The approved range commands and their sequence are as follows:
8.3.1 "Load And Make Ready" (or "Make Ready" for starts with an unloaded firearm) – This command signifies
the start of "the Course of Fire". Under the direct supervision of the Range Officer the competitor must face
down range, or in a safe direction as specified by the Range Officer, fit eye and ear protection, and prepare
the firearm in accordance with the written stage briefing. The competitor must then assume the required start
position. At this point, the Range Officer will proceed.
8.3.1.1 Once the "Load and Make Ready" (or "Make Ready" for starts with an unloaded firearm)
command has been given, the competitor must not move away from the start location prior to
issuance of the "Start Signal" without the prior approval, and under the direct supervision, of the
Range Officer. Violation will result in a warning for the first offense and may result in the
application of Rule 10.6.1 for a subsequent offense in the same match.
8.3.2 "Are You Ready?" – The lack of any negative response from the competitor indicates that he fully
understands the requirements of the course of fire and is ready to proceed. If the competitor is not ready at
the "Are You Ready?" command, he must state "Not Ready". It is suggested that when the competitor is
ready he should assume the required start position to indicate his readiness to the Range Officer.
8.3.3 "Standby" – This command should be followed by the start signal within 1 to 4 seconds (also see Rule
10.2.6).
8.3.4 "Start Signal" – The signal for the competitor to begin their attempt at the course of fire. If a competitor fails
to react to a start signal, for any reason, the Range Officer will confirm that the competitor is ready to attempt
the course of fire, and will resume the range commands from "Are You Ready?".
8.3.4.1 In the event that a competitor inadvertently begins shooting prematurely ("false start"), the Range
Officer will, as soon as possible, stop and restart the competitor once the course of fire has been
restored.
8.3.5 "Stop" – Any Range Officer assigned to a stage may issue this command at any time during the course of
fire. The competitor must immediately cease firing, stop moving and wait for further instructions from the
Range Officer.
8.3.5.1 When conducting Standard Exercises, and/or when two or more courses of fire share a common
shooting bay or area, Range Officials may issue other interim commands on completion of the first
string or COF, in order to prepare the competitor for the second and subsequent strings or COF
(e.g. "Reload if required and holster"). Any such interim commands to be used must be clearly
stated in the written stage briefing.
8.3.6 "If You Are Finished, Unload And Show Clear" – If the competitor has finished shooting, he must lower his
handgun and present it for inspection by the Range Officer with the muzzle pointed down range, magazine
removed, slide locked or held open, and chamber empty. Revolvers must be presented with the cylinder
swung out and empty.
Dry-firing on LAMR
Seems wrong to DQ someone for a dry-fire on the LAMR command, yet competitors are allowed to take sight picture and adjust optics, which takes time as well. Besides I thought this was the shooters time to prepare.
Mike
Seems wrong to DQ someone for a dry-fire on the LAMR command, yet competitors are allowed to take sight picture and adjust optics, which takes time as well. Besides I thought this was the shooters time to prepare.
Mike
I read through a bit of the GV thread and I can't see Vince's argument. Without a rule against, I can't possibly see how to assess a procedural unless it's for delay or sportsmanship. Vince might be right' but not 'legal'....
As for the commands, geez, if you elicit a response, methinks it's a question.
As for the commands, geez, if you elicit a response, methinks it's a question.
I'm not one to do any dry fire when the course of fire requires you to start loaded, however I do like to rack the slide and drop the hammer on an unloaded start. I'm not sure why but it makes me feel better/more confident that the gun is ready. Ok, ok,... I know I'm weird but it's what I do, and it only takes me about 5 seconds.
Actually, it's a rhetorical question...in that you don't expect a response...
It's asked for a reason...by not saying "no" or indicating to the RO that you are not ready...you are indicating that you are ready and understand the course of fire...
I read through a bit of the GV thread and I can't see Vince's argument. Without a rule against, I can't possibly see how to assess a procedural unless it's for delay or sportsmanship. Vince might be right' but not 'legal'....
As for the commands, geez, if you elicit a response, methinks it's a question.
Which reminds me of Stormbringers (now nuked) thread about Vince. He's a one man show.
