Dual-use Precision/Hunting 308 Build: Action and stock selection
- Thread starter mv2
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6.5 PRC
143 eldx 3050 FPS
At 400 yards 2497 FPS
1873 ft-lb energy
-22 inch drop
6.5 CM
143 ELD-X 2750 FPS
At 400 yards 2208 FPS
1548 ft-lbs energy
-28 inch drop.
So yes the barrel will burn out quicker.
About 1500 for the PRC and 3000 for the CM.
But either way, if you’re shooting those volumes, you’re gonna wear out a barrel.
I think the PRC is better suited to longer range hunting,on bigger animals.
IMO ,either 6.5 is better than than the fat ole .308 .. lol
Oh I'm not disagreeing with you, I think it's definitely better for longer range hunting and on bigger animals. But if I had to have a dual use gun, I'd go 6.5 CM all day, every day
But I also shoot 1000-1500 rounds of 6.5 a year so I dont want to change a barrel annually haha
If you only shoot 200 rounds a year then I dont think it matters.
I actually like 308, I mean it's not my go to for long range, but for training and shooting 800m and less, there's nothing wrong with it. I mean sure the wind pushes it around a lot more and there's way more drop, but if you can hit the target with a 308 then you'll have no problem with 6.5
Chassis swaps are easy, if you have a chassis that doesnt need bedding. IE most of the common ones
Howa and bergara are 90 degree throw actions I believe vs tikka's 60 degree throw. That is a personally preference thing and not a "issue" I like 90s as the firing pin spring reload is spread over more distance therefore lighter. AI actions are magical devices that make that go away though
I have no experience with bergara or howa, so I cannot comment which is the best
Spend as much as you can on optics. guns comes and go but optics you carry with you. I'm not a huge fan of Chinese scopes (Athlon) they provide value certainly but there is better. Nightforce NX8s are IMO a sweet spot in the line up. APEX optics has some nice ones as well and are Japanese. Sightron is awesome value as well. I had an Athlon, I won't buy one again.
unless you're sheep hunting up a mountain, weight doesn't matter. All my guns are over ten pounds. Heck I've carried AIs coyote hunting, and they are 17 lbs by the time you put everything on it. Get a good sling or backpack to carry and you'll be fine. Lift weights and do some cardio and it won't bother you.
Most rifle hunts I've been on you dont carry very far. and you're usually set up stationary to shoot. Weight hurts you moving the rifle to a location but helps you shoot long range. Most people will be more accurate at distance with a 15 lb gun vs an 8 lb one
hauling a 10lbs rig in the snow for wolfe/coyote or bison is something to be tried to understand how fast you will go lighter ...
For hunting rifles that I will be carrying all day I prefer barrels around 20” in length. I feel a scope with a 3-15 power range is a good compromise. I like the low power for hunting and no issues hitting targets at 600m at the 15 power. For hunting I prefer a stock to a chassis, feels warmer on the hands in the fall if not wearing gloves compared to a metal chassis and more comfortable carrying all day in hand.
My hunting rig is a REM 700 LTR with a 20” barrel in 308. It started its life as a multi purpose rifle as you are looking to do. It is now a primarily a hunting rifle as purchased dedicated target rifles a few years later once funds became available.
Only modifications are that It was bedded and I added a Gen1 HS precision Magazine kit. I like the idea of having the 4 round magazines flush to the stock for hunting/stalking and the option of a 10 rounder for target shooting. It’s a consistent 3/4 MOA rifle. Scope is a Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10 x40mm M3 FFP far from ideal for target shooting due to coarse adjustments but love it for hunting, quick come ups, Front focal so don’t need to worry on zoom setting if using the hash marks instead of dialing.
My hunting rig is a REM 700 LTR with a 20” barrel in 308. It started its life as a multi purpose rifle as you are looking to do. It is now a primarily a hunting rifle as purchased dedicated target rifles a few years later once funds became available.
Only modifications are that It was bedded and I added a Gen1 HS precision Magazine kit. I like the idea of having the 4 round magazines flush to the stock for hunting/stalking and the option of a 10 rounder for target shooting. It’s a consistent 3/4 MOA rifle. Scope is a Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10 x40mm M3 FFP far from ideal for target shooting due to coarse adjustments but love it for hunting, quick come ups, Front focal so don’t need to worry on zoom setting if using the hash marks instead of dialing.
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Wife has a lightweight hunter that is an absolute joy to carry! Something to be said about that... but... when she brings it to the range for paper punching, the barrel POI changes as the pencil barrel heats up...
Lots of good calibers. I use a PRC for deer, just because I pimped it and want to use it. I also have a #5 fluted benchmark 26" CM (this #5 fluted weight is same as a #4 non-fluted benchmark is) as a backup - it was my 'fun gun' - shot it lots at gongs/paper/plinker (>1500 so far) while my PRC was getting rebarrelled - that benchmark CM is a crazy fast barrel, and its hunting load is nothing to sneeze at, it shoots 140 hybrids/R26 very accurately at 2950 (hot load, which is 'bout the same speed as factory 143 eldx PRC), but i tone it down now and use 130 gamechangers... and for paper, it shoots great for its weight, standard h4350/r16 and 140 hybrids or eldm both bughole at 200yds - i cool it no different than a HB target rifle - POI doesnt change anywhere near as fast as the pencil barrels.
I am on my 3rd PRC barrel. My advice? get the CM. I would build it, personally. Or buy a good used custom....I have been lucky that all my builds have been worth the wait, and many if not all of them had various parts sourced out on here....
Having said that, as mentioned above, there are some real good factory rifles avail in your price range.
Oh - Consider a Rem700 5r gen 1 milspec 308, or a Gen 2 Rem 5r 6.5cm. Will do what you want and then some. Inexpensive and almost all are shooters. Easy to tweak
Lots of good calibers. I use a PRC for deer, just because I pimped it and want to use it. I also have a #5 fluted benchmark 26" CM (this #5 fluted weight is same as a #4 non-fluted benchmark is) as a backup - it was my 'fun gun' - shot it lots at gongs/paper/plinker (>1500 so far) while my PRC was getting rebarrelled - that benchmark CM is a crazy fast barrel, and its hunting load is nothing to sneeze at, it shoots 140 hybrids/R26 very accurately at 2950 (hot load, which is 'bout the same speed as factory 143 eldx PRC), but i tone it down now and use 130 gamechangers... and for paper, it shoots great for its weight, standard h4350/r16 and 140 hybrids or eldm both bughole at 200yds - i cool it no different than a HB target rifle - POI doesnt change anywhere near as fast as the pencil barrels.
I am on my 3rd PRC barrel. My advice? get the CM. I would build it, personally. Or buy a good used custom....I have been lucky that all my builds have been worth the wait, and many if not all of them had various parts sourced out on here....
Having said that, as mentioned above, there are some real good factory rifles avail in your price range.
Oh - Consider a Rem700 5r gen 1 milspec 308, or a Gen 2 Rem 5r 6.5cm. Will do what you want and then some. Inexpensive and almost all are shooters. Easy to tweak
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I shoot coyotes all the time with heavy rigs that I hike in with. A decent sling or better yet a backpack are ideal. I use an eberlestock backpack, the best thing I ever bought for hunting
Here are a couple of things from my hunting experience. I will star with this, I much prefer hunting with tacticle semi-auto(not applicable to you) but with that I found myself really drawn to lpvo especially 1-8 and 1-6. The logic behind this is you don't "need" 20 or 25x do take a shot at most hunting distances and 1x is much faster at close range....
Now with my experience and having gone that route here is why I wouldn't do this and go this other route instead!
I cam to observe that at 1x every sighting I found myself zooming in a bit as 1x is hust not enough to identify. Also lpvo are often as heavy if not heavier then regular scopes. I found myself always overing in the 3-5× zoom. Also high magnification optics in the 20-25 range are much heavier, bulkier and more expensive and unless you are on a stationary position looking at 500+ yard they just don't give you much benefits.
I would point you to scopes in the 3-15 or 18 range but honestly money could be saved and a 4-12 could really fo the trick!
At one point I had a nice 308 savage 10tr in a mdt lss-xl stock. One of the issue to me was that even with the fairly minimalist lss-xl and very little accessories part from a Nightforce nxs 5.5-22 the rifle was just to heavy, not as accurate as I wanted and the bolt was just unpleasant.
At one point I would like to try again but I would probably go with a tikka as the one I have handle the bolt is so smooth! Don't pet others fool you a smooth bolt goes a very long way! My other top choice would be a Sig cross with it's light weight . My only concern is I have not handle the sig and I am less confident about its accuracy. I would prioritize the following : accuracy, low weight, smooth bolt, good trigger and aftermarket availability.
I am a real sucka for chassis, I realy enjoy there tacticle feel, versatility and looks but be very carful with weight as you can take a great 7-8 pound gun and transform it into a soul sucking 14 pound rifle! And I would even say if budget is tight a good factory stock could be a great way to save money to invest in a good scope.
Also I would say for many newer shooter it is comon to develop a flinch with light rifle, lets say like a tikka ultralight. It doesn't have enough mass to absorb the recoil. I would recomend a muzzle brake. Now some will say " well that is just pointless you don't even feel tge recoil wen you are hunting" . That is 100% percent accurate, you don't feel it! But at the range wen you practice you definitely will and that is where flinches and bad habits are developed!
Damm now I'd really loke to build myself a nice 6.5 CM Tikka in a chassis
Now with my experience and having gone that route here is why I wouldn't do this and go this other route instead!
I cam to observe that at 1x every sighting I found myself zooming in a bit as 1x is hust not enough to identify. Also lpvo are often as heavy if not heavier then regular scopes. I found myself always overing in the 3-5× zoom. Also high magnification optics in the 20-25 range are much heavier, bulkier and more expensive and unless you are on a stationary position looking at 500+ yard they just don't give you much benefits.
I would point you to scopes in the 3-15 or 18 range but honestly money could be saved and a 4-12 could really fo the trick!
At one point I had a nice 308 savage 10tr in a mdt lss-xl stock. One of the issue to me was that even with the fairly minimalist lss-xl and very little accessories part from a Nightforce nxs 5.5-22 the rifle was just to heavy, not as accurate as I wanted and the bolt was just unpleasant.
At one point I would like to try again but I would probably go with a tikka as the one I have handle the bolt is so smooth! Don't pet others fool you a smooth bolt goes a very long way! My other top choice would be a Sig cross with it's light weight . My only concern is I have not handle the sig and I am less confident about its accuracy. I would prioritize the following : accuracy, low weight, smooth bolt, good trigger and aftermarket availability.
I am a real sucka for chassis, I realy enjoy there tacticle feel, versatility and looks but be very carful with weight as you can take a great 7-8 pound gun and transform it into a soul sucking 14 pound rifle! And I would even say if budget is tight a good factory stock could be a great way to save money to invest in a good scope.
Also I would say for many newer shooter it is comon to develop a flinch with light rifle, lets say like a tikka ultralight. It doesn't have enough mass to absorb the recoil. I would recomend a muzzle brake. Now some will say " well that is just pointless you don't even feel tge recoil wen you are hunting" . That is 100% percent accurate, you don't feel it! But at the range wen you practice you definitely will and that is where flinches and bad habits are developed!
Damm now I'd really loke to build myself a nice 6.5 CM Tikka in a chassis
might work for you. in winter the bison may be higher than dall sheep ...
very good advices and even without the 20 moa rail.
I think the T3 CTR 308 20" is a great compromise when it comes to dual role or just a very accurate medium range deer rifle. I would not be so worried about the weight of a medium weight rifle, more worried about getting the deer back. My rucksack has the meat of a Sika deer that was shot on top of the hill. Hunt started on the other side of the hill. We don't have very long hunts, rather two three stints in a day.
edi
that rifle is really one of the best compromise you can meet in those days.
I tend to agree with this line of thought 100%. I understand that, in the interest of economics, people want to go dual-purpose, but there is no way to do it without compromise. My opinion is to put your heart into one game or the other. Hopefully both, two rifles (or more!). Again I understand that it isn't currently feasible for some, but make some choices with that as a goal.
Of course, only my opinion for what it's worth...........
Mystic Precision
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Another option to consider... Rem 783 hunting rifle in 308... If you can find the varmint or HB version, even better.
Drop into a XRS with a heavy match prefit barrel... you have a no compromise set up, then switch back to a hunting rifle in 10 mins. swapping prefit barrels is a very simple process.
I also believe that having a do it all rifle is not ideal (been there, tried it). With prefit barrels (many actions can have this done), you can start with a basic hunting donor (I have no issues with the plastic stock for hunting), change a few parts and have something that you will actually enjoy target shooting with.
Jerry
Drop into a XRS with a heavy match prefit barrel... you have a no compromise set up, then switch back to a hunting rifle in 10 mins. swapping prefit barrels is a very simple process.
I also believe that having a do it all rifle is not ideal (been there, tried it). With prefit barrels (many actions can have this done), you can start with a basic hunting donor (I have no issues with the plastic stock for hunting), change a few parts and have something that you will actually enjoy target shooting with.
Jerry
A 20 MOA rail certainly is not needed for out to 500, but the instant they are able to shoot 500, they want to go further! LOL
The added elevation on the rail makes it easier to dial past five and not have to hold over , especially with some of the older 1" scopes
Cat
Mv2, I may have missed it, but when you say " target shooting", do you mean taking you rifle to the range on a semi regular basis and shooting at targets for fun, or are you actually planning on participating in some sort of competitive discipline?
Using a hunting rifle at the range that you can comfortably shoot will pay dividends in the long run.
Many hunters I know that shoot a lot use a different rifle for the range, but very few actually practise from the positions they would be shooting in a hunting situation.
Any shooting one does is better than no shooting however!
Cat
Using a hunting rifle at the range that you can comfortably shoot will pay dividends in the long run.
Many hunters I know that shoot a lot use a different rifle for the range, but very few actually practise from the positions they would be shooting in a hunting situation.
Any shooting one does is better than no shooting however!
Cat
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I love the challenge to build a dual use rifle. Everybody should have one, a rifle that you grab when you don't know what to expect when going on a hunt. A rifle that you grab if farmers bull goes mad etc. I have built or just put together many incarnations of these. For a while I was able to get 1/13 twist 308 FTR barrels cheap as the twist rate had gone out of fashion. Made 20" & 22" rifles in ultra lightweight carbon stocks. One of these with a 20" Bartlein 308 went to a friend as his starter rifle for PRS, in one comp he was the only one with a first round hit at 930m. He is going to his second world championship in 2024 with different rifle we put together.
Lilja 22" 1/13 3 groove on a T3 action in ultra light carbon stock.
A few years back (I am second gun in line), 243 Border 22" barrel in rem 700, carbon stock at 600yd comp. Had a lucky win, guy to the right came second, also a 243. The price you pay for dual use rifle is normally a few positions behind the big boys but that's ok for me.
edi
Lilja 22" 1/13 3 groove on a T3 action in ultra light carbon stock.
A few years back (I am second gun in line), 243 Border 22" barrel in rem 700, carbon stock at 600yd comp. Had a lucky win, guy to the right came second, also a 243. The price you pay for dual use rifle is normally a few positions behind the big boys but that's ok for me.
edi
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