Dutch Mannlicher

DiMP

DiMP

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I'll start by saying I'm a fan of WW2 history and milsurp in general. One day I'd like to own one rifle from every combatant nation. So, with that in mind, I picked up this Dutch Mannlicher rifle. Holland was engaged in hostilities for a few weeks before they were overrun and occupied by German forces for the remainder of the war. My Opa and Oma both lived through the occupation (on different sides of the country) and the stories they told will stick with me forever.

These aren't all that common of rifle, and much less desirable than the other WW2 nations' rifles. Be it the minor role the Netherlands played, or owing to the fact ammunition is all but non-existent. I have 10 clips for the rifle, a set of 6.5x54MS dies (thanks fellow CGN'er!), and a pile of 303 British brass just waiting to be modified in order to be able to shoot this thing.

I haven't had time for a full teardown and cleaning, and can't even say which model I have for certain. The Dutch fielded upwards of 18 different models or variants of the m95 Mannlicher. Looking at C&Rsenal's videos and "Quick and Dirty" guides (seen here: h ttps://surplused.com/index.php/2014/09/25/a-quick-and-dirty-guide-dutch-mannlichers/ ) I could have an Old Model No3 with missing top handguard, Carbine No5 missing it's handguard, an M95 Artillery, or m95 Genie version.

It seems someone at some time added varnish or similar to the stock, and I'd love to hear ideas on removing it *gently* and tips for refinishing it in it's more traditional matte oil look. I find this too glossy and would like to change that, but don't want to risk damaging the intact cartouches in the stock. I'll keep this thread updated as I begin to reload and shoot this old girl

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Steel wool will take the gloss off. The varnish stays but not glossy. I have a M95. The M/S dies will get you started forming cases but hope you realize that the cartridge is 6.5x53R. On first firing the shoulder gets blown out and rounded so proper dies or neck size after first firing. I used 6.5x52 Carcano dies to form mine. I have neck sizers in Hornady and Lyman 310. The rim will have to be reduced. Base has to be reduced. I measured my 303 brass and found I could reduce the head in 6.5 dies if 303 case head where smaller than 0.450.
Mine shoots extremely well with cast or jackets.
 
Snider shooter said:
Steel wool will take the gloss off. The varnish stays but not glossy. I have a M95. The M/S dies will get you started forming cases but hope you realize that the cartridge is 6.5x53R. On first firing the shoulder gets blown out and rounded so proper dies or neck size after first firing. I used 6.5x52 Carcano dies to form mine. I have neck sizers in Hornady and Lyman 310. The rim will have to be reduced. Base has to be reduced. I measured my 303 brass and found I could reduce the head in 6.5 dies if 303 case head where smaller than 0.450.
Mine shoots extremely well with cast or jackets.
Click to expand...

I've been doing a bunch of online reading but this will be a learning curve none-the-less. My plan based on what I read is:
303 Brit dies -> 308 Dies -> 7mm-08 Dies -> 6.5 Jap or 6.5 Carcano or 6.5MS dies then if the brass survives that, trim down the rim
I plan to anneal as needed between sizings to avoid cracking the brass
 
DiMP said:
I've been doing a bunch of online reading but this will be a learning curve none-the-less. My plan based on what I read is:
303 Brit dies -> 308 Dies -> 7mm-08 Dies -> 6.5 Jap or 6.5 Carcano or 6.5MS dies then if the brass survives that, trim down the rim
I plan to anneal as needed between sizings to avoid cracking the brass
Click to expand...
Found my book. My notes say.
Full resize of 303 British.
Use 7.62x39 to push shoulder back
310 Lyman neck sizers used 7 Mauser and 6.5 Swedish
Trim to 2.100. Load and fire form in chamber.
Note added later about using 6.5 Carcano sizer to push shoulder back as another option.
Nothing about annealing so I probably tried forming without annealing to see if it would work.
I have multiple die sets so I always find a way to make up a case. Your 308 die could be used to bump the shoulder back. The 7 and 6.5 dies should reduce your neck down slowly. Small steps is actually easier on the brass. I’d try with annealing first. Remove your expanders out of your dies. After everything is formed I’d size your necks with expander in the die.
Hope you have clips as it took a few months to find a couple for mine.
 
Snider shooter said:
Found my book. My notes say.
Full resize of 303 British.
Use 7.62x39 to push shoulder back
310 Lyman neck sizers used 7 Mauser and 6.5 Swedish
Trim to 2.100. Load and fire form in chamber.
Note added later about using 6.5 Carcano sizer to push shoulder back as another option.
Nothing about annealing so I probably tried forming without annealing to see if it would work.
I have multiple die sets so I always find a way to make up a case. Your 308 die could be used to bump the shoulder back. The 7 and 6.5 dies should reduce your neck down slowly. Small steps is actually easier on the brass. I’d try with annealing first. Remove your expanders out of your dies. After everything is formed I’d size your necks with expander in the die.
Hope you have clips as it took a few months to find a couple for mine.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the added info. If nothing else, reloading for this thing should be a good learning experience. And as for the clips, I ordered 10 from Numrich that showed up in my mailbox the other day. That should keep me going for a bit, but they will forever now be on my radar when I attend gun shows
 
Eaglelord17 said:
Neat carbine. I would like a Dutch M95 however I want one which is in it’s correct pattern and not messed with, which seems to be difficult to locate.
Click to expand...

Ya, all originals seem rare for sure. It's funny, I had messaged someone on GP for an M95 that they'd had listed for a month. Then, as bad-luck would have it, someone had made them an offer 24 hours before I'd seen the post and made my offer so I lost out. I ended up finding this rifle (arguably in slightly better shape and for $50 less) at PS Militaria out of Quebec. They had good communication and packed the rifle very nicely for shipping
 
Eaglelord17 said:
Neat carbine. I would like a Dutch M95 however I want one which is in it’s correct pattern and not messed with, which seems to be difficult to locate.
Click to expand...
I have always liked the Dutch Mannlichers. I love their bayonets. The first rifles ere Austrian made by Steyr. I had one
dated 1897. The Romanian Mannlicher is an earlier rifle I believe Model 1892 or 1893. Almost unheard of. John
 
jtaylor said:
I have always liked the Dutch Mannlichers. I love their bayonets. The first rifles ere Austrian made by Steyr. I had one
dated 1897. The Romanian Mannlicher is an earlier rifle I believe Model 1892 or 1893. Almost unheard of. John
Click to expand...
Would love a Romanian one (or a Portuguese one as well) however those are both exceptionally rare.

When you only have a few hundred thousand rifles and show up to WWI with them (after the balkan wars) by the end they only had something like 80k survive.
 
Started down my reloading journey today for this old girl. Started with 50 Winchester 303 British. First ran them through a 308 die then trimmed off almost 1/8th of a inch. I deburred them all then out to the garage for my first ever attempt at propane torch annealing. I don't have tempilac so I eyeballed it and did ~7 seconds each while spinning them in a socket. Visually they look like annealed cases I've seen before? I wasn't able to borrow a 7mm-08 die like I thought I could, so I jumped right to the 6.5x54ms die (with stem). Next I removed the stem from my Carcano dies (since it is a .268 stem) and ran them all through that one.

That's all the time I had to work on these these days off. Next days off I'll tackle the final trimming and looking at whether I need to modify the rims of the cases. Then, I may be able to attempt to get some loaded and try them out

Overall, it was fairly easy going. I haven't run into any big hurdles yet (other than thinking I still had propane left for the torch when in fact I did not). That being said.... I still have no idea whether they will fit in the rifle
 
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