Easily Influenced
- Thread starter sailor723
- Start date
There's a brace for sale on the EE now, complete with conversion cylinders in .45 Colt as well as .44 in BP.
Yeah, I saw those....I think if I was to indulge I'd look for one in .38 special....cheaper to shoot and easier to find ammo for.
Londonshooter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
I guess I'm easily influenced. ...Watched Pale Rider last night and now I'm thinking I should have a Remington 1858 New Army Conversion.
Know what you mean. For me it's from watching Hell on Wheels (great series if you're looking for something to download) although not positive what model cap and ball he shoots. RPAL not required means prices are pretty high but can't get it out of my mind.
That gun in the movie was set up with a cartridge conversion. The Remington New Model Army 1858's replicas from Uberti and Pietta are cap and ball. And finding or getting a cartridge conversion isn't all that easy up here in Canada. And the cartridge conversions I have seen cost as much to buy as the gun. On top of that these guns are only available in .44 with bores that are .45Colt friendly in size. So you won't find a .38Spl version. At least not unless you can find one of the .36 size replicas and then find a cartridge conversion for that.
What you need to do instead is either dive fully into a Uberti 1875 Remington cartridge guns or opt for one of the Uberti open top Colt conversions. The 1875 is a cartridge gun from the get go and the conversions are set up with the proper conversion cylinder.
It's either that or dive into the deep end of the pool right off and go cap and ball pushed by proper black powder. I've been shooting cap and ball for quite a few years now and it's a total blast because it is SO different. Cleaning the guns at the end of the day is a pain for sure. But I've come up with a few tricks that makes it so I can do a half cleaning of the barrel, cylinder and general parts I can reach in about 15 minutes if I'm not distracted. A full strip that includes the insides is something I do about every third or fourth time out and that takes more like 40 minutes.
Shootable versions of those antique guns are out there but do you really want to risk breaking or de-valuing your investment like that? Especially since, if I recall right, the gun in the show is a Dance Bros. The genuine Dance Bros revolvers sell for up well into the 5 figures range when they can be found. It's actually FAR cheaper to take the course and upgrade to RPAL and just buy a modern replica.
Here's some inspiration for you...
What you need to do instead is either dive fully into a Uberti 1875 Remington cartridge guns or opt for one of the Uberti open top Colt conversions. The 1875 is a cartridge gun from the get go and the conversions are set up with the proper conversion cylinder.
It's either that or dive into the deep end of the pool right off and go cap and ball pushed by proper black powder. I've been shooting cap and ball for quite a few years now and it's a total blast because it is SO different. Cleaning the guns at the end of the day is a pain for sure. But I've come up with a few tricks that makes it so I can do a half cleaning of the barrel, cylinder and general parts I can reach in about 15 minutes if I'm not distracted. A full strip that includes the insides is something I do about every third or fourth time out and that takes more like 40 minutes.
Shootable versions of those antique guns are out there but do you really want to risk breaking or de-valuing your investment like that? Especially since, if I recall right, the gun in the show is a Dance Bros. The genuine Dance Bros revolvers sell for up well into the 5 figures range when they can be found. It's actually FAR cheaper to take the course and upgrade to RPAL and just buy a modern replica.
Here's some inspiration for you...
Am I missing something or is this not what I was talking about? (a 1858 conversion in .38 special)
https://www.wolverinesupplies.com/P...onversion--38-Special-7-3-8--Octagonal-Barrel
https://www.wolverinesupplies.com/P...onversion--38-Special-7-3-8--Octagonal-Barrel
Yup! That is exactly what you were talking about and Wolverine is also great to deal with.
Yes or maybe no. They were at first supposed to come with a Cap and Ball cylinder too, and I don't know what the C&B cylinder looks like in 38 "for easy transition"; maybe it was gunwriter misunderstanding.
Maybe it should be said that they are converted. But that's what you are looking for.
These guns are bigger than the regular BP ones and built for smokeless. If I remember, the cylinder compares in dimensions and thickness to the one found on Blackhawks, in order to accomodate the 45Colt.
This also means that they might be on the heavy and bulky side of what most shooters expect from a 1858. A six incher would be handier.
Here's some inspiration for you...
The Remington is beautiful...look at that bluing!
The Remington is beautiful...look at that bluing!
No, you're not missing anything. And once again I learn the lesson that I should never say "never".....
My one saving fact is that this must be a Taylor's exclusive. Looking at the Uberti website the New Army Conversion is only shown in .45Colt. I had not known that this gun was available in .38Spl.
So... you going to jump on it?
By the way, the Taylor's &Co guns are done by Uberti. So you'd be getting some very nice external and internal fit and finish.
I'm tempted (even put one in the cart) but then I thought about it getting trapped in the postal strike/lockout that may come as early as July 2. Think I'll hold off until that situation is more clear. I might call Wolverine and see if they have alternate shipping options planned....website shows Canada Post as the only option right now.
edit
I'm also not sure I wouldn't prefer to buy one somewhere else if I could. I was just reading about the specials/discounts that Wolverine has on this weekend but then see that they are "in store only" ...not the end of the world but that kind of rubs me the wrong way. Why should online customers be discriminated against in favour of people in Virden MB?
edit
I'm also not sure I wouldn't prefer to buy one somewhere else if I could. I was just reading about the specials/discounts that Wolverine has on this weekend but then see that they are "in store only" ...not the end of the world but that kind of rubs me the wrong way. Why should online customers be discriminated against in favour of people in Virden MB?
Last edited:
I doubt that the overall guns are any bigger than the original. And I've never seen anything to indicate that the Italian clones are anything less than size for size. Having said this the old cap and ball .44 size guns are rather stout regardless of if we are talking about the 1851 Colt, the 1858 Remington or the 1860 Army. None of these are small guns. And all of them make an 1873 look like a pocket pistol when sitting side by side.
The originals are supposedly .44 but in reality they need a .454 to .457 round ball fitting into a chamber sized to .452'ish. Which is obviously the right size for a .45Colt bullet. I also just went and checked a spare cylinder I've got for my Remingtons and there's lots of meat for a .45 casing to fit and still have what is regularly seen as enough of an outer wall thickness to get by.
And of course with a .38Spl version the walls of the cylinder and barrel will be that much thicker. So I suspect that this .38Spl version will be 2 or 3 oz heavier than a .45Colt version and likely heavier than the .44 C&B version.
Handy they are not. You nailed that one. And with the smaller bore and same size octagonal outside dimensions this .38Spl conversion will be a little more front heavy.
That long heavy section barrels on these guns do make it feel front heavy if we're used to 1873's. But oddly enough having shot both my Remington and Colt C&B guns which are both have these long and heavier section 8 inch barrels I actually like them. They aren't handy like a short nosed 1873 but they make up for that with a sense of stability........ at least until your arm muscles start shaking
I'm tempted (even put one in the cart) but then I thought about it getting trapped in the postal strike/lockout that may come as early as July 2. Think I'll hold off until that situation is more clear. I might call Wolverine and see if they have alternate shipping options planned....website shows Canada Post as the only option right now.
edit
I'm also not sure I wouldn't prefer to buy one somewhere else if I could. I was just reading about the specials/discounts that Wolverine has on this weekend but then see that they are "in store only" ...not the end of the world but that kind of rubs me the wrong way. Why should online customers be discriminated against in favour of people in Virden MB?
This whole batch of Taylor guns seems like a batch that Wolverine got a while back. About a year ago they had oodles of Taylor guns and I even bought their 1885 High Wall in .38-55 which is not a regular Uberti chambering for this gun. So if you don't jump on this one there may not be any around for a long while to come. Even if it comes down to pay now and have them hold it for you until they are sure it won't turn to vapor in some postal depot. And I've not see Taylor's & Co. guns being sold by anyone else.
Or you could email or call them and ask if they plan on bringing in Taylor's guns on a regular basis. If so you can afford to give this one a pass and wait for the next one.
If you wanted a slightly lighter gun you could also consider looking for the same thing chambered in .45Colt directly from Uberti. The gun's barrel would be the same weight as the C&B barrel so it wouldn't be that extra bit of front heavy. Of course if you already reload or keep .38Spl around I can see the attraction of this particular model.
I have quite a few Colts and Smith & Wessons in 357 or .38spl so I have a fair bit of commercially reloaded .38 ammo stockpiled. I don't reload and i really don't want to have to get into sourcing and buying .45 Colt.
As I understand it Wolverine is having a big open house this weekend and isn't doing any online business or responding to inquiries until Monday. It was really just a whim so maybe I will wait until Monday and see if the urge passes.
As I understand it Wolverine is having a big open house this weekend and isn't doing any online business or responding to inquiries until Monday. It was really just a whim so maybe I will wait until Monday and see if the urge passes.
Last edited:
Kirst and R&D have to make their conversion cylinders five shooters in 45 Colt... The above guns made by Uberti in 45Colt have a 1.71" diameter cylinder I think; could you measure yours for comparison?
It wasn't what I meant, but I have
When Uberti started making the 1858, they, according to Mike Venturino, didn't allow for shrinkage in the casting process.
I have seen such a gun and found it quite scary, with its paper thin cylinder walls in "44" (I got again that feeling when handling Pietta's LeMat). At the time I thought about a mixup at the factory between frame sizes, and wondered about it for twenty years before reading Venturino.
The problem was solved long time ago and these guns are pretty rare.
Last edited:
KG, my spare cap&ball cylinder for the Uberti 1858's is 1.6 inches. !.603 if you're splitting hairs. So if the conversion cylinders are sized at 1.71 are quite a lot larger. Larger enough that I don't think that it would fit into my Uberti frames.
I'd read something about that shrinkage allowance a few years ago. I didn't realize that some of them made it out into the user world. What a mess that would be.
I'd read something about that shrinkage allowance a few years ago. I didn't realize that some of them made it out into the user world. What a mess that would be.
I finally found my notes regarding a Cimarron: 1.651...
To clarify what I said about Kirst and Taylor/R&D, the issue is with rim sizes versus available space. R&D chambers are cut at an angle to room 6 of them.
The same trick was used by Colt when they made 1873 in 455 Eley/Colt.
To clarify what I said about Kirst and Taylor/R&D, the issue is with rim sizes versus available space. R&D chambers are cut at an angle to room 6 of them.
The same trick was used by Colt when they made 1873 in 455 Eley/Colt.
